Male Juvie Gups Attacking Newly Added Adult Gup

[ezrock]

Hi all,

Yesterday I tried adding my adult male gup to a juvie tank that is a 2 gal hex. There are maybe 12 juvies about an inch long (though some are smaller). I was surprised to see that the juvies were all ganging up on the male a few hours later when I went to feed them. Literally at least 8 of them surrounding him trying to nip his fins (they weren't successful for some reason, THANKFULLY).

Needless to say, I took him out and put him back where I had him before (in a breeding net within the 10g that's housing the boys' sisters. I saved just the one father because none of the males seemed to be colouring up like they should have as of a few weeks ago (I'm trying to develop a strain). I think I have at least two of the juvie males that are developing the perfect colours now actually which is quite exciting so I may not have to mate the girls to their father afterall!

Anyways, sorry I got side tracked there. Has anyone else ever experienced juvies PICKING ON their newly introduced father before???

-Ian

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

They are doing it because there is a big lack of space, the absoulte minimum gallons for guppys is 5gals and for an all-male tank it is 10gals, so you realy need to upgrade your hex tank. When there is too few space, particualy with in livebearer tanks, there will be much stress and harrassment between the fish and agression will be common. The only fish that can live permanently in a 2gal is a betta. I strongly advise you get a 20gal for your current males if you want to keep them as they out grew that 2gal a long time ago, either that or rehome them all as 2gals is too small for any guppy .

 

[ezrock]

Hi. They don't do that to eachother. I'm always watching them as they sit right beside my laptop on my desk. They're really peaceful with eachother and not agressive at all. This is exactly how I've raised the males for all my other past 4 generations of the line. Never had problems before. I can already tell that at least half of them are not what I'm going for, so I'll be giving them away soon, freeing up much space.

Thanks for the advice on the 20gallon tank, but I have no room for one.

-Ian

 

[dwarfgourami]

And how long do you keep them in a 2 gallon? Wouldn't have thought they'd develop into very strong swimmers in such a confined space, and that seems to be one of the main problems with male guppies these days, that they are just not strong. Seems hard on such an inquisitive and active fish, that loves exploring, to keep it in such a small space.

 

[ezrock]

when they're 2 months old or so (about now) I usually put them into the 10 gallon with the selected females. They stay there divided until I can choose the final males to use. So, any day now, when I have a chance, I'll be changing them over to half of the ten gallon tank.

All the ones I have bred and raised have developed into great swimmers. That is probably due to me feeding them a nice variety of live, flake, fry food, and bloodworms right from day one (obviously not the larger foods until they can handle them).

-Ian

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

You cannot say wether they are good swimmers or not just keeping them in a devided 10gal, 10gal tanks are very small tanks as they are, how many female guppys do you have?

 

[ezrock]

Tokis,

Sorry but I don't particularly like your attitude. My fish ARE good swimmers and that's that. I have about 8 females right now that are 2 months old. Soon will be down to only the fastest growers (maybe 4 or so).

-Ian

 

[BWBettas]

Tokis is only trying to give advice if u dont like it dont take it its smple but dont annoy him/her (sorry dont know) just because he gave u advice you didnt like

 

[ezrock]

its not that s/he gave me advice i didn't like. s/he was trying to tell me something about MY fish which s/he has NEVER even seen as if they know SO MUCH about fish that they can tell me a detailed fact about my fish.

THAT'S what annoys me!

 

[dwarfgourami]

its not that s/he gave me advice i didn't like. s/he was trying to tell me something about MY fish which s/he has NEVER even seen as if they know SO MUCH about fish that they can tell me a detailed fact about my fish.

THAT'S what annoys me!

Excuse me, but you came on this forum asking for advice about YOUR fish. Where was the point of that if noone is able to tell you anything about YOUR fish? Obviously, Tokis is not personally acquainted with your fish, but she is able to draw on a very extensive experience of breeding guppies, and of livebearers in general. How much more could you hope for anyone on a fish forum to be able to do?

I may add that I share her concerns; I do not think a 2 gallon is a suitable grow-out tank for guppies. IMO what this species needs is breeding (and rearing) aimed at developing better, healthier, stronger fish, whereas in the past a lot of breeding has concentrated too much on developing attractive colouring and tail shapes.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Heh ) ...

Ezrock i am not trying to have a go at you or be harsh, but i think my concerns are well based- i shall explain;

Basically a 2gal tank is very small for a tank considering the average large sized tank most people own are tanks ranging to about 30gals, although there are many people who own tanks that exceed into the hundreds of gallons.
When a guppy is raised in a small tank like a 2gal there is not much current in the tank due to a small filter and not much space to explore for the guppys, during the the first couple of months of a guppys life they grow their most and grow quite rapidly at that in comparison to most other fish out there.
A guppys muscles are mostly based in the base of its tail, if the guppy does not excercise much in its growth spurt at youth these muscles will be affected through out the rest of its life even if it is then moved to a large tank in maturity, their tail will be permanenty damaged in strength throughout their life.
The issue then lies if the guppy is them rehomed to a larger tank, like a 40gal, particually if the guppy is a delta/long tailed fancy guppy, these sorts of guppys suffer much in the strongly filtered open space.
Symtoms may range from the guppy running out of energy of constanty staying in lowly filtered areas of the tank or more serious symtoms like the tail actually shredding in the stronger filter current and the guppy then dying shortly afterwards. I have quite large tanks myself and have had to suffer buying seemingly healthy delta tailed guppys only for their health to deteriotate over the next weeks because my main tank is too large for them- there are now some variations of guppys that have been bred so long in small breeders tanks that they can no longer prosper in anything bigger than a lightly filtered 20gal.
This is not how guppys are supposed to be.
Guppys used to be one of the hardiest fish out there in this hobby years ago but due to breeders over breeding them to gain prettier variations or breeders breeding vast numbers of guppys in small tanks, guppys are now quite a fragile species, there are now many guppy types that are too fragile and over bred to recommend to beginner fish keepers which is a shame, and guppys are getting worse.

Now i am sure you want the best for your guppys, but what point is there in breeding them and giving them to your local fish store(or where ever you off load them onto), if they only suffer and die when somone takes them on into a larger tank in the state of mind they will be happier in a large tank, no?
When it comes to breeding any animal you should have its best interests in mind at the top of your list some where- you will get much healthier, larger and more energetic and socially normal guppys if you upgarde your breeding/fry rearing tank to 10gals, this at least will help improve the prospects of rearing strong, healthy and happy guppys .

 

[dwarfgourami]

Tokis- after I'd read that post I went downstairs and looked at my young male guppy in the 19 gal. Watching him swimming strongly through the current, evidently enjoying himself, and remembering how pathetically his poor father struggled to swim in a 15 gal- well, there is a clear difference.
Also, I am old enough to remember what guppies looked like 30 years ago. I kept them then partly because they were such a hardy species.