Lowering Ph From 8.4 To 8.0
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nmonks
A stroke of the brush does not guarantee art from
What do you mean by "African cichlids"? Are we talking mbuna? Or Malawian haplochromines? Or Tanganyikans? All these need hard water, but most will take clown loaches apart, so mixing them together is a really stupid idea. On the other hand there are West African soft water cichlids that could be kept with clown loaches, kribs for example. But do bear in mind clown loaches are very demanding fish. You need a group of at least three, and realistically 5 or more, and each of those will get to 20-30 cm/8-12 inches long. Unless you happen to have a tank measuring several hundred gallons in size, clown loaches shouldn't even be on your wish list.
I do wish the "African cichlids" phrase would die out!
In any case, don't mess with pH. The fact you're asking about pH implies you don't understand water chemistry. In itself, pH is largely irrelevant, and fish will adapt to a broad pH range. What they don't like are rapid pH changes. Rift Valley cichlids are generally more fussed about carbonate hardness than pH. If you maintained a Tanganyikan system around 15 degrees dH, 8 degrees KH, pH 7.5-8.0, there's no water chemistry reason why a hardy plec couldn't be added. Of course, territorial cichlids may well attack such a catfish, so whether it's a good idea is a whole other question.
Generally, Malawian and Tanganyikan cichlids are best kept in their own systems, and if catfish are required, a suitable Synodontis species should be used instead. Algae should not be an issue in a Malawian tank since most of those cichlids eat some algae, and adding a catfish would only make things worse.
Cheers, Neale
I do wish the "African cichlids" phrase would die out!
In any case, don't mess with pH. The fact you're asking about pH implies you don't understand water chemistry. In itself, pH is largely irrelevant, and fish will adapt to a broad pH range. What they don't like are rapid pH changes. Rift Valley cichlids are generally more fussed about carbonate hardness than pH. If you maintained a Tanganyikan system around 15 degrees dH, 8 degrees KH, pH 7.5-8.0, there's no water chemistry reason why a hardy plec couldn't be added. Of course, territorial cichlids may well attack such a catfish, so whether it's a good idea is a whole other question.
Generally, Malawian and Tanganyikan cichlids are best kept in their own systems, and if catfish are required, a suitable Synodontis species should be used instead. Algae should not be an issue in a Malawian tank since most of those cichlids eat some algae, and adding a catfish would only make things worse.
Cheers, Neale
Im sorry, i admit im no expert in water chemistry. Anyways, my ph is somewhere above 8, my KH is 120, and my GH is about 150. I havent decided what africans i want, as i said i have a 75 gallon with lots of rocks. Which cichlids wouldnt eat plants, and which cichlids would be best for my hardness
N0body Of The Goat
Oddball and African riverine fish keeper
I'm a little surprised that your pH is 8 if the tank is mature, with such mediocre kH and gH values. As a comparison, Southampton water is typically ~kH 200mg/l and gH 240mg/l (~11 and 14 degrees respectively), which means it has more buffering capacity to keep the pH alkaline.
Given the above, I'd say your water appears to be naturally better suited to riverine African fish, rather than Rift Valley cichlids. Cichlids that jump to my mind to consider are one like the Butterfly Cichlid (Anomalochromis thomasi); Nanochromis nudiceps (although "rarer than hen's teeth in trade); Nanochromis parilus (often misold as nudiceps as at my LFS, but these have black/yellow/white stripes on upper half of caudial fin); Nanochromis transvestitus (albeit these small fish have a love/hate relationship). The beautiful Congo bushfish (Microctenopoma congicum) is another possibility and given their ~8cm adult size, you will not have the predation considerations I will have with my Ctenopoma acutirostre, would as adults could easily be tempted by anything <6cm and "torpedo-shaped!"
Having said that, if you really wanted Malawi or Tanganyikan cichlids, you could do it with good preparation. You could either research how to boost your tap water's kH and gH using minerals and how to ensure you are adding similar water upon water changes, or you could consider Reverse Osmosis (RO) with minerals added, which some stores will sell ready prepared.
Given the above, I'd say your water appears to be naturally better suited to riverine African fish, rather than Rift Valley cichlids. Cichlids that jump to my mind to consider are one like the Butterfly Cichlid (Anomalochromis thomasi); Nanochromis nudiceps (although "rarer than hen's teeth in trade); Nanochromis parilus (often misold as nudiceps as at my LFS, but these have black/yellow/white stripes on upper half of caudial fin); Nanochromis transvestitus (albeit these small fish have a love/hate relationship). The beautiful Congo bushfish (Microctenopoma congicum) is another possibility and given their ~8cm adult size, you will not have the predation considerations I will have with my Ctenopoma acutirostre, would as adults could easily be tempted by anything <6cm and "torpedo-shaped!"
Having said that, if you really wanted Malawi or Tanganyikan cichlids, you could do it with good preparation. You could either research how to boost your tap water's kH and gH using minerals and how to ensure you are adding similar water upon water changes, or you could consider Reverse Osmosis (RO) with minerals added, which some stores will sell ready prepared.
nmonks
A stroke of the brush does not guarantee art from
N0body Of The Goat offered a great answer there, to which I have little to add. I am concerned you're still talking about "African cichlids" without specifying what sort of cichlids you want -- West Africans, Congo River, Tanganyikans, Malawians, Victorians or whatever. These run the range from soft water species through to brackish water species, so without understanding the differences between them, you can't ever set up a decent community. Worse, within these groups there are subgroups that may be mutually exclusive. Mbuna for example shouldn't be kept with Malawian haplochromines despite wanting the same water chemistry, and Tropheus shouldn't be kept with other Tanganyikans.
Failure to plan carefully is how people end up with those dull, overstocked "mixed African cichlid" tanks with a few big Pseudotropheus zebra that have killed off half the fish in the tank and hybridised with the rest.
There are countless excellent cichlid books out there, and you really should spend some time tracking down at least one good book about the type of cichlids you like. Almost anything by Konings or Loiselle would earn its keep a dozen times over. Mary Bailey has also written lots of magazine articles and books on cichlid communities, at least one of which I recently edited for WWM and you can read here:
http
/www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/StkgLkMalawiTksArtBailey.htm
And yes, as N0body Of The Goat points out, you really do need to properly establish what your water chemistry is before you make any other decisions.
Cheers, Neale
Failure to plan carefully is how people end up with those dull, overstocked "mixed African cichlid" tanks with a few big Pseudotropheus zebra that have killed off half the fish in the tank and hybridised with the rest.
There are countless excellent cichlid books out there, and you really should spend some time tracking down at least one good book about the type of cichlids you like. Almost anything by Konings or Loiselle would earn its keep a dozen times over. Mary Bailey has also written lots of magazine articles and books on cichlid communities, at least one of which I recently edited for WWM and you can read here:
http
/www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/StkgLkMalawiTksArtBailey.htmAnd yes, as N0body Of The Goat points out, you really do need to properly establish what your water chemistry is before you make any other decisions.
Cheers, Neale
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