Lost a good one today

[Seisage]

Heard from the aquarist at the small aquarium I volunteer for that one of our big skates (Raja binoculata) passed today
Her name was Annie and she was beautiful and healthy just two weeks ago. We're still not fully sure what the cause was, but she ingested a piece of wayward zip tie a bit ago and then went off food, so I worry something internal got ruptured... She also had a small sore on her lip which we were hoping might've been the reason she went off her food. She was isolated and was being treated with both topical and injected antibiotics, but things just didn't work out...

She was only little when I first started at the aquarium a few years ago, barely just hatched from some egg cases a fisherman brought in. She will be greatly missed

 

[jaylach]

I'm in no way really qualified to say for sure but my bet would be on "but she ingested a piece of wayward zip tie a bit ago and then went off food".

 

[Seisage]

I'm in no way really qualified to say for sure but my bet would be on "but she ingested a piece of wayward zip tie a bit ago and then went off food".

That is absolutely my guess for the cause of her death. The aquarist was hopeful, but I had my suspicions the longer she went without passing the zip tie piece and not eating. Unfortunately, we're a very small facility (we only have two full-time staff. The rest of us are volunteers), and the veterinarian at the aquarium a couple hours away wasn't able to make it out to us and could only advise from afar...

I think the hope is to preserve her for a potential future autopsy the next time the veterinarian is able to make it out to us, and to maybe use her as a teaching tool. She was a model R. binoculata

 

[jaylach]

That is absolutely my guess for the cause of her death. The aquarist was hopeful, but I had my suspicions the longer she went without passing the zip tie piece and not eating. Unfortunately, we're a very small facility (we only have two full-time staff. The rest of us are volunteers), and the veterinarian at the aquarium a couple hours away wasn't able to make it out to us and could only advise from afar...

I think the hope is to preserve her for a potential future autopsy the next time the veterinarian is able to make it out to us, and to maybe use her as a teaching tool. She was a model R. binoculata

Just curious... How in the world did a twist tie get in the tank? Containing the beastie and freezing would likely preserve the thing for the autopsy. I strongly suspect that, if the tie was one of those bread bag types, with a wire enclosed in paper, it will be found that the wire punctured the digestive tract and then caused injury to other internal organs.

 

[simonas]

Poor thing

 

[Seisage]

Just curious... How in the world did a twist tie get in the tank? Containing the beastie and freezing would likely preserve the thing for the autopsy. I strongly suspect that, if the tie was one of those bread bag types, with a wire enclosed in paper, it will be found that the wire punctured the digestive tract and then caused injury to other internal organs.

So, the skates live in a fairly deep tank, and we target feed them (normally we have juvenile salmon in the tank with them and those are ravenous little beasties, so target feeding the skates at the bottom is important). Of course, this means we have to get the food down to them somehow. We've tried grabbers in the past, but they can be unwieldy and the saltwater eventually gets to them and corrodes the internal mechanisms. So, the device du jour ended up being a length of PVC with a cut piece of zip tie (the hardware store kind that you use to secure things) attached to the end of it. The pieces of fish or squid would be speared onto the piece of zip tie and lowered down to the skates. Historically, this has worked out just fine. I guess that day, Annie decided she needed to really chomp down... Needless to say, we've gone back to using grabbers.

Edit: the zip tie used was one of those really thick heavy-duty ones. Given that it was cut to just a short little piece in order to be able to stick pieces of fish onto, it very likely could have pierced her digestive tract somewhere. We sanded the cut edge so it wasn't sharp, but still.

 

[jaylach]

So, the skates live in a fairly deep tank, and we target feed them (normally we have juvenile salmon in the tank with them and those are ravenous little beasties, so target feeding the skates at the bottom is important). Of course, this means we have to get the food down to them somehow. We've tried grabbers in the past, but they can be unwieldy and the saltwater eventually gets to them and corrodes the internal mechanisms. So, the device du jour ended up being a length of PVC with a cut piece of zip tie (the hardware store kind that you use to secure things) attached to the end of it. The pieces of fish or squid would be speared onto the piece of zip tie and lowered down to the skates. Historically, this has worked out just fine. I guess that day, Annie decided she needed to really chomp down... Needless to say, we've gone back to using grabbers.

Edit: the zip tie used was one of those really thick heavy-duty ones. Given that it was cut to just a short little piece in order to be able to stick pieces of fish onto, it very likely could have pierced her digestive tract somewhere. We sanded the cut edge so it wasn't sharp, but still.

If I may offer a suggestion for the future...

Use a weighted skewer such as you would use for a kabob with something like a plant weight attached. Attach a line to the skewer so the the food attached to the skewer is just above the substrate. The weight on the skewer would quickly drop the food below the salmon. Even if the tip of the skewer were to be bitten off it is something that could actually be digested. Actually the chance of the end of the skewer being bitten off would be a long shot as the thing, being attached to a line, would give a lot of give and it is almost a given that the food would just slip off when hit. Just a quick thought......

 

[Seisage]

If I may offer a suggestion for the future...

Use a weighted skewer such as you would use for a kabob with something like a plant weight attached. Attach a line to the skewer so the the food attached to the skewer is just above the substrate. The weight on the skewer would quickly drop the food below the salmon. Even if the tip of the skewer were to be bitten off it is something that could actually be digested. Actually the chance of the end of the skewer being bitten off would be a long shot as the thing, being attached to a line, would give a lot of give and it is almost a given that the food would just slip off when hit. Just a quick thought......

No, this is actually a really good suggestion, thank you! I'll bring it up to the aquarist when I go in tomorrow morning. Are you thinking of those bamboo skewers? I'm wondering if a metal one would be even better. It could be dried off, for one, and I really don't think it would be possible for a skate to bite through metal

 

[jaylach]

No, this is actually a really good suggestion, thank you! I'll bring it up to the aquarist when I go in tomorrow morning. Are you thinking of those bamboo skewers? I'm wondering if a metal one would be even better. It could be dried off, for one, and I really don't think it would be possible for a skate to bite through metal

A steel skewer may be better and would include its own weight and,yes, I was referring to a bamboo skewer. Still I wonder if bamboo may not be safer as I don't know the mouth type or bite force of a skate. What I'm thinking is if a skate's bite force is strong enough that, if it bit down on a metal skewer, could it be possible for damage to the mouth be possible. A wood skewer would, at least, have a little give where one of metal would not. Actually strips of balsa wood may be even better that bamboo as balsa has very little density as far as wood goes and is one of the lightest which would add to being digestible..

Let us know what your people say and I will respond as well as possible as I'm sure others will as well. I don't have any 'direct' degrees or anything even though I have taught college courses but I have what seems to be a knack of looking through a problem instead of being tied by looking at the problem. LOL! Make what sense of that as you can... I know what I mean...

 

[Seisage]

A steel skewer may be better and would include its own weight and,yes, I was referring to a bamboo skewer. Still I wonder if bamboo may not be safer as I don't know the mouth type or bite force of a skate. What I'm thinking is if a skate's bite force is strong enough that, if it bit down on a metal skewer, could it be possible for damage to the mouth be possible. A wood skewer would, at least, have a little give where one of metal would not. Actually strips of balsa wood may be even better that bamboo as balsa has very little density as far as wood goes and is one of the lightest which would add to being digestible..

Let us know what your people say and I will respond as well as possible as I'm sure others will as well. I don't have any 'direct' degrees or anything even though I have taught college courses but I have what seems to be a knack of looking through a problem instead of being tied by looking at the problem. LOL! Make what sense of that as you can... I know what I mean...

Hmm... I see what you're getting at regarding softness and digestibility of wood. I would still worry about the bamboo or balsa holding onto water and getting gross and moldy over time though. Maybe not an issue since they're so cheap to replace, but still. I might also worry about splinters if the skate were to bite through it, and they probably would. Skates have two.. "plates" of teeth in their mouths. They're really densely packed rows of teeth to the point where it's functionally a solid plate of enamel (picture attached!). As a result, their bite strength can certainly be a force to be reckoned with. They probably couldn't bite through a metal skewer, but I have little trouble believing they could bite through bamboo.

But yes, I will definitely talk about this with the aquarist tomorrow and post an update about our discussion.

(Photo credit: Liam Faisey)

 

[Seisage]

A steel skewer may be better and would include its own weight and,yes, I was referring to a bamboo skewer. Still I wonder if bamboo may not be safer as I don't know the mouth type or bite force of a skate. What I'm thinking is if a skate's bite force is strong enough that, if it bit down on a metal skewer, could it be possible for damage to the mouth be possible. A wood skewer would, at least, have a little give where one of metal would not. Actually strips of balsa wood may be even better that bamboo as balsa has very little density as far as wood goes and is one of the lightest which would add to being digestible..

Let us know what your people say and I will respond as well as possible as I'm sure others will as well. I don't have any 'direct' degrees or anything even though I have taught college courses but I have what seems to be a knack of looking through a problem instead of being tied by looking at the problem. LOL! Make what sense of that as you can... I know what I mean...

Well, the aquarist really liked this idea! I think we are going to go with the metal skewers though. I'm not sure when we'll be able to prototype, but she thinks it could work really well

 

[jaylach]

COOL! LOL! Usually, when I think, I end up with a headache and in trouble...

 

[jaylach]

Just had another thought... OUCH! ... Just to be safe you may want to cut off the sharp point and round the end.

 

[Seisage]

Just had another thought... OUCH! ... Just to be safe you may want to cut off the sharp point and round the end.

Definitely. I think the cheap metal skewers tend to have somewhat rounded tips already, but it's always good to have sandpaper at the ready. We might sand them anyway just to be safe. Thanks for all your input!

 

[jaylach]

No worries. Hope it works out.