Lonely Black Phantom?

[sparrow]

hi there, i have a single black phantom tetra in my tank. there are also 5 rosy tetras 5 neon tetras 7 guppies 2 gouramis 2 panda corrys 2 bristlenose plecs 5 black tetras and now 4 glowlight tetras (one died for no apparent reason 2 days ago) and two remaining cherry barbs.
 
the tank is 60 litres and has half live plants and half fake. the ammonia etc levels r all normal but the ph is slightly alkaline but this is usual for my tank. temp is about 27 degrees C.
 
i have had most off the fish for quite some time. recently i added the neons and 3 glowlights and all seemed fine. a couple days ago i added a male bristlenose. again...fine. 
 
a glowlight was sitting on the bottom looking sick and lifeless the samw day i added the bristlenose so i quarantined it and shortly after it died. i also removed a cherry barb with dropsey. not going to replace it as they seem to get dropsey alot and just gonna let the others die out i think.
Anyway a while ago my fish had white spot but i treated it and they all got better. 
then my gourami was sitting on the bottom and i was told this was a sign of bacterial infection so i treated it with malifix. again it got better. all my fish look pretty happy and healthy atm. 
except mr black phantom. iv had him for quite a long time now. i originally had 5. then i lost 2 and bought the 5 rosy tetras. quite a while back i had a huge sickness in my tank where many fish died for no apparent reason. i did water changes and all the treatments the fish place told me. nothing helped. then one day they stabled but i was left with the one black phantom. he was fine hanging out with the rosys. but now iv been inspecting my fish recently and he looks all shrunken. like a little old grandpa fish. long body but no longer the nice round shape. i think hes been like this for a few weeks at least.
 
i was wondering if he just needs more of his own species..or if something else is causing it. he acts completely normal he just looks like a tetra with identity issues. like shud he be round like the rosys or skinny like the neons? he cant seem to decide. shud i get him friends? my tanks already quite full tho and i dont want to push the limits too much...or shud i leave him and let him die off on his own? what shud i do??

 

[Ninjouzata]

Can you give the exact water parameters? Normal does not tell us much unfortunately.
 
What are the dimensions of your tank? Black phantom tetra, rosy tetra, glowlight tetras are not suitable for this size tank. They all need groups of 6+ as well which your tank is already quite overstocked.
 
What sort of gouramis do you have? If you don't know can you post a pic? Someone should be able to ID it.
 
How long has this tank been set up? Did you cycle it? If so, how?
 
What treatments did you use on the tank? What is your water change schedule like? (How often/how much)
 
Can you get a picture of the black phantom tetra? Sorry you're having to deal with this btw  

 

[sparrow]

he died lol. tank had been set up for 2 yrs plus. yes it was cycled for two weeks before fish were added. tank is much large enough for all my fish as long as i get no larger ones. im giving my glowlights away. have newly updated my black neons and neons to 10 each. removing my last two cherrys and 2 guppies also. unfortunalely no photo of mr black phantom as he died.

Can you give the exact water parameters? Normal does not tell us much unfortunately.
 
What are the dimensions of your tank? Black phantom tetra, rosy tetra, glowlight tetras are not suitable for this size tank. They all need groups of 6+ as well which your tank is already quite overstocked.
 
What sort of gouramis do you have? If you don't know can you post a pic? Someone should be able to ID it.
 
How long has this tank been set up? Did you cycle it? If so, how?
 
What treatments did you use on the tank? What is your water change schedule like? (How often/how much)
 
Can you get a picture of the black phantom tetra? Sorry you're having to deal with this btw

im abit slack with water changes unfortunately but have been doing better recently. i treated with malifix as well as adding some cycle/stability to the tank. i have a female blue tetra and a pearl male.  female is quite small and has been forever. male is fairly sizeable with trailing lacy tail. both are very relaxed and usually stay out of the other fishes way. however the male just started chasing the female today.

 

[Ninjouzata]

So sorry for your loss. Running the tank for two weeks will not have done much except ensure equipment is working properly but since it's been running for 2 years it should be cycled unless you've replaced the filter media.
 
Unfortunately your tank is not large enough to house all of your schools comfortably. They need space to swim and grow. Glad you're re-homing some of them though.
 
How often do you change your water and how much do you change? I think I'd be doing at least 50% a week with all of those fish in this size tank.
 
The tank is too small for the pearl so it's not very surprising that he's starting to get territorial and chasing the other gourami. I would re-home him if you can or upgrade your tank.

 

[Wildbetta]

Ok.  There are a lot of issues here so I will try to address each in its own separated paragraph to make it easier.
 
1.  Your biggest issue is that your tank is WAY too small for all these fish together.  It is also WAY too small for most of these fish alone.  For starters:  the pearl gourmani needs a 120 litre tank (30 gallons); the blue gourmani needs a 80 litre tank (20 gallons), the bristle nose plecos need a 80 litre tank for one and then closer to a 160 litre for multiple ones; the cherry barbs need a 120 litre tank(they need to be kept in groups of at least 6); the panda cories need a 80 litre tank(they need to be kept in groups of at least 6). The tetras (all the different types) would each be ok in a tank of 40 litres BUT only one type in that size tank not multiple. To keep multiple types(like you have right now) you would need a much larger tank (example -- neon tetras and black tetras together would need a 80 litre) plus they all need to be in groups of at least 6 individuals for each type.
 
2.  Water changes on this size tank would normally be ok at 25% a week but with the stocking you have, I would do no less than 75% once a week or even better 50% every other day to keep the levels safe.  Slacking on water changes with a normal stocked tank would normally not be a big issue but with the stocking you have right now, slacking on water changes in any way is poisoning your fish.
 
3.  Even though your tank SHOULD be cycled with it running with fish for 2 years, with you keeping so many fish in such a small tank, there is no way that your tank is able to stay cycled and therefor safe for your fish.  Which basically means that they are still having to deal with ammonia and nitrite spikes.  
 
4. Using medications without knowing exactly what the problem is (or really close) is not a good idea as it could potentially cause lots of stress to the fish.  Melafix and other medications ending in the word "fix" should not be used with fish like gourmanis and bettas because they have what is called the labyrinth organ and breathe from the surface.  These medications contain tea tree oil that coats the surface of the water and can impair breathing.
 
5.  The gourmani are aggressive territorial fish on a normal basis so it is not recommended to keep different species together especially the bigger varieties.  The fact that you have these two in such a small tank together plus with other fish means they are going to be extra aggressive to each other and probably the other fish.  The fact that your blue gourmani is so small shows it is stunted.  Which means that it did not have enough space to grow to its full size and is therefor suffering because while its body was not able to grow, the insides continued to.  The fact that you are seeing the chasing behavior means you need to make some changes very soon or you will most likely end up with one of the gourmani dead.
 
 
Conclusion -- you require a bigger tank to house your fish. Period.  And you need it NOW.  Otherwise you are going to continue to lose fish.  Sorry to say that but it is the truth plain and simple.  If you are not able to get a bigger tank, then you need to rehome most of your fish.

 

[sparrow]

i have had most of these fish in this tank size for 2 years and a few less of these in a smaller tank before hand. it seems to me that the number of fish allowed in a tank in the us is different for what they say here in nz. admittedly my blue has lived with me for almost 2 years and she is a happy little placid fisg. my male pearl is also very placid usually and this one time is the only time he has ever been aggresive in the least. although yes he probably does need a bigger tank. i may rehome the blue female with my sister. her tank is three times the size of mine. but she has a blue male dwarf so im not sure they are compatible. the two cherrys are the last of an original 6. i will not buy more of them as they are prone to dropsey. a bigger tank would be great but they are soooooo expensive so it will have to wait. when i say i cycled it for 2 weeks i didnt mean it ran it for two weeks i mean i cycled it and didnt add fish for two weeks after i set it up. i have not lost many fish overall. i regularly check ammonia levels and they have been fine excepting the times i havent kept up regular water changers. usually 25-50% 

 

[Wildbetta]

i have had most of these fish in this tank size for 2 years and a few less of these in a smaller tank before hand. it seems to me that the number of fish allowed in a tank in the us is different for what they say here in nz. admittedly my blue has lived with me for almost 2 years and she is a happy little placid fisg. my male pearl is also very placid usually and this one time is the only time he has ever been aggresive in the least. although yes he probably does need a bigger tank. i may rehome the blue female with my sister. her tank is three times the size of mine. but she has a blue male dwarf so im not sure they are compatible. the two cherrys are the last of an original 6. i will not buy more of them as they are prone to dropsey. a bigger tank would be great but they are soooooo expensive so it will have to wait. when i say i cycled it for 2 weeks i didnt mean it ran it for two weeks i mean i cycled it and didnt add fish for two weeks after i set it up. i have not lost many fish overall. i regularly check ammonia levels and they have been fine excepting the times i havent kept up regular water changers. usually 25-50% 

 
There is a saying in fish keeping that fits your situation perfectly.  "Surviving is not Thriving".  What this basically means is that, "yes your fish are still alive in your inappropriate tank/number of fish BUT they are not living to their potential".  They are very cramped, very stressed, and will have shorter life spans and be more likely to get sick than a fish in the correct size tank/number of fish.  Requirements for fish (size of tank, number in a group, appropriate tankmates, ect) are made for a reason and they do not change depending on where you are in the world.  So the information I gave you in the other post I made apply whether you are in the US, the UK, NZ, or any other place in the world.  I am not sure who is giving you the bad information in your area about the stocking but they are wrong.  There really is no other way to say it.  If it is a fish store of any kind, those places are there to make money and normally will tell you just about anything to get you to buy something.  If say you buy fish not appropriate for your tank and the fish gets sick, they can then sell you overpriced medications.  Just how those places work unfortunately and it happens everywhere in the world.
 
As for how you cycled the tank, while your tank was sitting for 2 weeks running with no fish, did you add ammonia or fish food for an ammonia source?  If not, then you did not cycle the tank and most likely need to look at the thread on cycling a tank so you have an idea about what cycling is all about.  Like I mentioned in my earlier comment still goes though, with how much you are overstocked in that tank, there is no way your cycle is holding up even if you were able to cycle it in 2 weeks in the beginning which is extremely rare and almost impossible by the way.  You say you regularly check ammonia levels, are you also checking nitrite levels at the same time?  If not then you need to.  Also what are you testing with -- strips or liquid?  This makes a big difference.
 
I do understand you not wanting to get more cherry barbs because of the dropsy.  Honestly though this species is not bad to get dropsy in a correct setup which should be a sign that they are not doing well in your tank which is why you have them get dropsy so regularly.  I am surprised you haven't had more of your fish have issues similar to the cherry barbs if I were to be honest and would not be surprised if you start to have issues.  The reason you see such a big problem when you don't keep up with regular water changes is because your tank hangs on a slim thread with the regular water changes and then that thread breaks when you slack on the changes.
 
I hate to always have negative info for you but it is what you need to hear for the health of your fish.  My honest recommendation is to rehome all your fish except maybe the guppies and ONE of the tetra species.  Everything else does not belong in your tank.  I do understand about the expense of a bigger tank but that is where research before getting fish comes in.  Plus fish keeping is not a cheap hobby unfortunately (oh all the money I have spent on mine over the years  LOL) and you are in control of taking care of every need the fish have since they are not able to.  Just something to think about.