Log And Some Questions.

[ShyKitty91]

I have a previous log on another thread, but it's jumbled and hard to read so I thought I'd make a tidy one.

At water changes, new water is double dosed with conditioner.
Before adding to tank, water has a pH of 7.6 and NO3 level of 40.
I test between 8-10PM everyday.
As of Aug 15 I will test 2x a day. 8-10AM and 8-10PM.
I use a soup spoon to mix water after dosing with NH3.
I wait 30mins after mixing to test new NH3 level.

~~~~~~~ NH3 ~ NO2 ~ NO3 ~ pH
Aug 07:~ 1/4 tank water change (7.5G)
~~~~~~~ 0.6 ~~ 1.6 ~~ 30 ~~ 7.8
~~~~~~~ Dosed with a couple capfuls of NH3.
Aug 08:~ 7.3+ ~ 2.0 ~~ 40 ~~ 8.5
~~~~~~~ NH3 raised pH??
Aug 09:~ 7.3 ~~ 3.3 ~ 160 ~~ 8.0
~~~~~~~ Added a dose of Big Als Bio-Support
Aug 10:~ 6.5+ ~ 3.3+ ~ 15 ~~ 7.9
~~~~~~~ Bio-Support lowering NO3???
Aug 11:~ Happy Birthday to me!
~~~~~~~ 6.5 ~~ 3.3 ~~ 10 ~~ 8.0
Aug 12:~ 4.9+ ~ 3.3+ ~ 10 ~~ 8.0
Aug 13:~ 1/4 tank water change (7.5G)
~~~~~~~ 2.4 ~~ 2.6 ~~ 40 ~~ 7.6
~~~~~~~ Added 15 drops NH3
~~~~~~~ 4.9 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Aug 14:~ 1.8 ~~ 3.3+ ~ 40 ~~ 7.6
~~~~~~~ Added 45 drops NH3 (15 every 30mins)
~~~~~~~ 2.4 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~ Cycling too fast to raise up NH3???
~~~~~~~ pH leveled to 7.6 due to finished cycle?

 

[ShyKitty91]

Aug 14:~ 1.8 ~~ 3.3+ ~ 40 ~~ 7.6
~~~~~~~ Added 45 drops NH3 (15 every 30mins)
~~~~~~~ 2.4 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~ Cycling too fast to raise up NH3???
~~~~~~~ pH leveled to 7.6 due to finished cycle?

~~~~~~~ NH3 ~ NO2 ~ NO3 ~ pH
Aug 15:~ 1.2 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
9AM ~~~ Added 4 capfuls of NH3
~~~~~~~ 4.9 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Aug 15:~ 1.8 ~~ 2.0 ~ 80 ~~ 7.4
8PM ~~~ Added 4 capfuls of NH3
~~~~~~~ 8.0 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~ Not understanding the very random amounts of NH3 going in..
~~~~~~~ Stuck at 1-2ppms NH3 or just not enough time?

 

[Miles_hot]

I'm not sure I understand why you're adding the Ammonia in slowly... We just added the right amount for the volume of water - the calculator in the beginner's resource will tell you how much. We checked this by testing it once and there after we know we're adding the right amount.

We used the add and wait method - dose to 4ppm once and don't add any more until the Ammonia has dropped to 0.

You certainly don't want to be doing to 8ppm on the ammonia - at these sorts of levels it inhibits the bacteria which you're trying to grow. I would suggest doing a 50% water change to bring the concentration down to 4ppm.

I'm impressed by the readings you're getting - what are you using to do the testing?

Like us you started with a high reading of Nitrates in the tap water - you should keep an eye on these levels as we found when they went up to 100 or so the cycle would slow down - this was always helped by a 100% water change. I note that your levels are rising which is a good sign but just keep an eye on them

Many thanks

Miles

 

[ShyKitty91]

I'm not sure I understand why you're adding the Ammonia in slowly... We just added the right amount for the volume of water - the calculator in the beginner's resource will tell you how much. We checked this by testing it once and there after we know we're adding the right amount.

We used the add and wait method - dose to 4ppm once and don't add any more until the Ammonia has dropped to 0.

You certainly don't want to be doing to 8ppm on the ammonia - at these sorts of levels it inhibits the bacteria which you're trying to grow. I would suggest doing a 50% water change to bring the concentration down to 4ppm.

I'm impressed by the readings you're getting - what are you using to do the testing?

Like us you started with a high reading of Nitrates in the tap water - you should keep an eye on these levels as we found when they went up to 100 or so the cycle would slow down - this was always helped by a 100% water change. I note that your levels are rising which is a good sign but just keep an eye on them

Many thanks

Miles

It only ended up at 8 because the night before I had added the same amount, and got a much lower reading when I tested.
What do you mean adding the ammonia in slowly? I dose to 5 every night before bed and its mostly sitting around 1.6 when I get up 8 hours later. Where it seems to stay and not convert anymore. Any tips on that?

I started off dosing with 8ppm. And it DID cycle, but slower. I slept through my alarm today (oops) so I am only testing now (It's 11.)
Once my NO3 went up to 160, then dropped to 15 the next night. Confusing, but after that the cycle sped up, alot.

Oh, for all but NO3 I use Hagen test, NO3 is API.

Edit: See, already at 4.9, actually convinent because I don't know if I'll be home tonight to test/dose.

Aug 15:~ 1.2 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
9AM ~~~ Added 4 capfuls of NH3
~~~~~~~ 4.9 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Aug 15:~ 1.8 ~~ 2.0 ~ 80 ~~ 7.4
8PM ~~~ Added 4 capfuls of NH3
~~~~~~~ 8.0 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~ Not understanding the very random amounts of NH3 going in..
~~~~~~~ Stuck at 1-2ppms NH3 or just not enough time?

~~~~~~~ NH3 ~ NO2 ~ NO3 ~ pH
Aug 16:~ 4.9 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Aug 16:~ 2.4 ~~ 1.6 ~~ 80 ~~ 7.2

 

[ShyKitty91]

You think if I keep this up until the weekend, then do a 50% water change, I can get my 7 guppys?
Will never have to double the tank stock after that..

I am not intending to add them 2 at a time, all at once.
So they gang/school appropriately and I can avoid bullying/loneliness.

 

[Miles_hot]

I was commenting on the "Added 45 drops NH3 (15 every 30mins)" which I took to be your normal method which contrasts with my "add it all at once" method In terms of the cycle sticking time is the great thing here. I would tend to leave it to actually go to zero before adding the nex 5ppm as you will then not get into the over 5 teritory which apparently makes things slower. It will also allow you to react to the nitrite spike by reducing the dosage to 2ppm otherwise you risk inhibiting the slower growing N-bacs. Allowing it to drop all the way to zero also gives you a more "consistent" view of your cycle against other experiences + removes the random feel to the amount of Ammonia you're adding

If I read your reply correctly you're using liquid regent tests against a colour card? How are you getting the 0.8, 1.2 etc readings when normally these things are graded 0.25, .5, 1, 2, etc??

I don't think you're in a state to add fish yet unless you intend to move to a fish in cycle. Assuming you stay with the fishless method you need to show both Ammonia and Nitrite going to 0 in 12 hours from a 4ppm dose of Ammonia and to "prove" this for 1 week.

Regards

Miles

 

[ShyKitty91]

I was commenting on the "Added 45 drops NH3 (15 every 30mins)" which I took to be your normal method which contrasts with my "add it all at once" method In terms of the cycle sticking time is the great thing here. I would tend to leave it to actually go to zero before adding the nex 5ppm as you will then not get into the over 5 teritory which apparently makes things slower. It will also allow you to react to the nitrite spike by reducing the dosage to 2ppm otherwise you risk inhibiting the slower growing N-bacs. Allowing it to drop all the way to zero also gives you a more "consistent" view of your cycle against other experiences + removes the random feel to the amount of Ammonia you're adding

If I read your reply correctly you're using liquid regent tests against a colour card? How are you getting the 0.8, 1.2 etc readings when normally these things are graded 0.25, .5, 1, 2, etc??

I don't think you're in a state to add fish yet unless you intend to move to a fish in cycle. Assuming you stay with the fishless method you need to show both Ammonia and Nitrite going to 0 in 12 hours from a 4ppm dose of Ammonia and to "prove" this for 1 week.

Regards

Miles

It was supposed to be 5drops/10G to get it to 5ppm.

Yes, liquid drop tests.
pH is 7.4, 7.6, etc up to 8.6
NH3 is 0, 0.6, 1.2, 2.4, 4.9, 7.3
NO2 is 0.1, 0.3, 0.8, 1.6, 3.3
NO3 is 0, 5, 10, 20, 40, 80, 160
When the color is in between I'll write an inbetween number.
I have a really good eye for color.

 

[ShyKitty91]

~~~~~~~ NH3 ~ NO2 ~ NO3 ~ pH
Aug 07:~ 1/4 tank water change (7.5G)
~~~~~~~ 0.6 ~~ 1.6 ~~ 30 ~~ 7.8
~~~~~~~ Dosed with a couple capfuls of NH3.
Aug 08:~ 7.3+ ~ 2.0 ~~ 40 ~~ 8.5
~~~~~~~ NH3 raised pH??
Aug 09:~ 7.3 ~~ 3.3 ~ 160 ~~ 8.0
~~~~~~~ Added a dose of Big Als Bio-Support
Aug 10:~ 6.5+ ~ 3.3+ ~ 15 ~~ 7.9
~~~~~~~ Bio-Support lowering NO3???
Aug 11:~ Happy Birthday to me!
~~~~~~~ 6.5 ~~ 3.3 ~~ 10 ~~ 8.0
Aug 12:~ 4.9+ ~ 3.3+ ~ 10 ~~ 8.0
Aug 13:~ 1/4 tank water change (7.5G)
~~~~~~~ 2.4 ~~ 2.6 ~~ 40 ~~ 7.6
~~~~~~~ Added 15 drops NH3
~~~~~~~ 4.9 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Aug 14:~ 1.8 ~~ 3.3+ ~ 40 ~~ 7.6
~~~~~~~ Added 45 drops NH3 (15 every 30mins)
~~~~~~~ 2.4 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~ Cycling too fast to raise up NH3???
~~~~~~~ pH leveled to 7.6 due to finished cycle?
Aug 15:~ 1.2 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
9AM ~~~ Added 4 capfuls of NH3
~~~~~~~ 4.9 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Aug 15:~ 1.8 ~~ 2.0 ~ 80 ~~ 7.4
8PM ~~~ Added 4 capfuls of NH3
~~~~~~~ 8.0 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~ Not understanding the very random amounts of NH3 going in..
~~~~~~~ Stuck at 1-2ppms NH3 or just not enough time?
Aug 16:~ 4.9 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Aug 16:~ 2.4 ~~ 1.6 ~~ 80 ~~ 7.2
Aug 17:~ 1.2 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Aug 17:~ 0.6 ~~ 1.6 ~ 120 ~~ 7.0
~~~~~~~ pH crashing?

 

[Miles_hot]

pH certainly heading down there and the Nitrates are pretty high. I'd watch and wait for a few days to see if it can get to zero ammonia and if it seems to slow do a 100% water change to reset both the pH and the Nitrate levels (re-dose with ammonia of course). Both the pH and the Nitrate levels is a good sign that stuff is happening

 

[ShyKitty91]

pH certainly heading down there and the Nitrates are pretty high. I'd watch and wait for a few days to see if it can get to zero ammonia and if it seems to slow do a 100% water change to reset both the pH and the Nitrate levels (re-dose with ammonia of course). Both the pH and the Nitrate levels is a good sign that stuff is happening

What is making the pH go down though? And what makes it go up with new water??
It is around 8 after a water change even though the water going in is 7.6.

I am curious to see if the nitrates do what they did last time they got high, so I am waiting to see for that.
Even so, a 1/4 tank change reset the levels to 8.0pH and 40NO3. As proven last time I did a water change.

I can only do 50% water changes MAX. Because my dad would have to make 2 trips to do 100% changes and he won't do that.

 

[ShyKitty91]

~~~~~~~ NH3 ~ NO2 ~ NO3 ~ pH
Aug 16:~ 4.9 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Aug 16:~ 2.4 ~~ 1.6 ~~ 80 ~~ 7.2
Aug 17:~ 1.2 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Aug 17:~ 0.6 ~~ 1.6 ~ 120 ~~ 7.0
~~~~~~~ pH crashing?
Aug 18:~ 0 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~noon~~ Added 5 capfuls (1 at a time)
~~~~~~~ 4.9 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


I can't use the calculator for ammonia amount. The bottle doesn't have a concentration on it.

 

[Miles_hot]

if it is household cleaner it would normally be around 9%. You could test this by taking a know amount of your water and putting that volume into the calculator and finding out how much ammonia it thinks you need to add and then checking it. As there's nothing in the water the change anything you've got a more stable situation to experiment with....

 

[ShyKitty91]

if it is household cleaner it would normally be around 9%. You could test this by taking a know amount of your water and putting that volume into the calculator and finding out how much ammonia it thinks you need to add and then checking it. As there's nothing in the water the change anything you've got a more stable situation to experiment with....

Okay, I'll do that tomorrow.

 

[ShyKitty91]

~~~~~~~ NH3 ~ NO2 ~ NO3 ~ pH
Aug 16:~ 4.9 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Aug 16:~ 2.4 ~~ 1.6 ~~ 80 ~~ 7.2
Aug 17:~ 1.2 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Aug 17:~ 0.6 ~~ 1.6 ~ 120 ~~ 7.0
~~~~~~~ pH crashing?
Aug 18:~ 0 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~noon~~ Added 5 capfuls (1 at a time)
~~~~~~~ 4.9 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Aug 18:~ 2.4 ~~ 1.6 ~~ 80 ~~ 7.0
~11pm~~ Where are the nitrates going?
Aug 19:~ Missed morning test
~~~~~~~ 1.8 ~~ 1.2 ~~ 60 ~~ 6.8
Aug 20:~ 1.4 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~ Missed evening test
Aug 21:~ Missed morning test
~~~~~~~ 1.2 ~~ 1.2 ~~ 20 ~~ 6.8
~~~~~~~ I wonder if the NO3 scale reverses after it gets to a certain level.

 

[Miles_hot]

I would think that the test isn't working properly - have you been really agitating the bottle (shake for 5 mins, bang on the table first etc) as the regent contains a powder which can sink out of suspension....