Lighting Upgrade Considerations

[FingersofFish]

Hi there,

After a period of neglect due to multiple.house moves I have finally got my tank back on track.

Part of this included getting rid of an algae problem and replacing all my original plant stock... And at the moment my tank looks clean and beautiful.

I'm concered however that my new planting will struggle to grow under my 2x20w T8 lighting on a 125litre tank. I have seen many retrofit options for my tank for both T5 and LED but wanted advice on what to go for.

The tank is low tech, fairly well planted and dosed with ferts and liquid carbon. I do not want too.much light to cause algae growth but want my plants to grow?

Will they grow sufficiently under T8.(they are after all low to medium light plants) or would a say a T5x24W or T5 4x14w retrofit be a good direction?

 

[DrRob]

Depends a whole lot on all sorts of things. Tank depth is a starting point, as well as the height on the lighting unit above the water. You've already mooted that plant type has an impact, as does planting density. Sunlight exposure is also part of the consideration.
 
There's nothing fundamentally wrong with a T8 set up. I've just upgraded one of my low tech tanks to T8 (it was using up an old T12 previously) and it's growing like crazy. If anything it's slowed a bit since the upgrade but it's probably adjusting.
 
Overall, T8's will grow many plants just fine, but don't expect rapid growth. They're certainly much easier tanks to maintain, but they do require a certain resistance to temptation with some of the nice looking, but more demanding, of the plants.
 
On most standard tanks, T5 lighting, if you put two of them close to the water, puts them fairly rapidly into the more complex lighting arrangements, but if you stick to the lower output T5's then you do get a good upgrade without creating an algae fest.

 

[Byron]

I agree with Rob.  I still use T8 lighting exclusively, primarily because it works so well in my situation (natural or low-tech, not high-tech setups) and I understand it.
 
I have a single 30-inch T8 tube (25w) over my 3-foot 33g.  This is low light, but with just Java Fern, moss and Water Sprite floating it is adequate.  I have also grown swords in this tank with less floating plants.  But with two 20w tubes (presumably these are 24-inch, I have one of these over my 29g) you should have no trouble.
 
However, the type of tube is important, as not all tubes are as intense in output.  Algae can become a nuisance with too much light but also with too little, as either way the balance between intensity and nutrients may not be sufficient for the plants.  If you can tell us the plant species, and the tank dimensions, and the data on your current tubes, I might have more.
 
Byron.

 

[daizeUK]

I'm in a very similar situation to you, FingersofFish.  I also have T8 lights over a 120L tank and I've been thinking carefully about changing or upgrading them.
 
The difference is my tank is only 2ft wide and nearly 2ft deep (it's a Juwel Lido) so I have 2x 15W = 30W over a deep 31 USG tank whereas you have 40W over a 32 USG tank which means your tank is probably 3ft wide and a normal depth.
 
So if I compare your situation to mine, your lighting sounds about right to me.  I'd say that your T8 lights are sufficient for your tank and your plants and you should stick with T8 because T5HO would be too strong.
 
However I'm still not sure about my lighting.  I've suffered badly with algae in this tank and I want to start again with a Walstad dirt approach.  I'm concerned that my T8's are too weak but scared that T5HO could be too strong.  Byron, DrRob - I hope the OP doesn't mind me sharing his thread but I'd appreciate your advice about lighting for my tank too!

 

[FingersofFish]

Tank is a 45cm deep, 125litre.

Tubes are two 24inch T8 20W AquaGlo that's all I know.... They hang about 1/2 an inch above the water.

My planting that I know is crypts, microsorum (java ferns), Amazon swords, hygrophyllia and some others I don't know (but were sold in a low light variety pack).

I dose liquid carbon and neutro t fertilizer daily.
And to add, I'm perfectly fine with the thread sharing I'm glad it's not just me!

 

[Byron]

Tank is a 45cm deep, 125litre.

Tubes are two 24inch T8 20W AquaGlo that's all I know.... They hang about 1/2 an inch above the water.

My planting that I know is crypts, microsorum (java ferns), Amazon swords, hygrophyllia and some others I don't know (but were sold in a low light variety pack).

I dose liquid carbon and neutro t fertilizer daily.
And to add, I'm perfectly fine with the thread sharing I'm glad it's not just me!

 
I'll comment on this before turning to daize's "hi-jack", lol 

 
Those dimensions and volume are the same as my tank I mentioned.  You have more than sufficient light for many aquatic plants, and upgrading to T5 would be way too much as daize suggested, and only asking for trouble.  And from the photos, there is not much amiss here, but some nutrient tweaking may help.
 
I am not familiar with Neutro t fertilizer, and on their website it does not say exactly what nutrients are in the product.  They call it complete, but they also mention using Neutro + (in high-tech) but this only makes me wonder more about just what nutrients these contain.  You may be missing something.  Can you tell me what nutrients the Neutro T contains, or provide a link to this data?
 
The liquid carbon, is this their product Neutro CO2?  I can't find what this contains either, can you confirm please?
 
To the light.  Are you sure the tubes are Hagen's Aqua-Glo?  The colour in the photo looks better than what this tube produces, though the previous photos on photobucket show the purplish hue that I have ascertained with this tube.  Anyway, these tubes need replacing every year as they lose intensity as they burn and by 12 months they are not putting out anywhere near the light.  I would use a Life-Glo (or Life-Glo 2) as one of the tubes, and a Sun-Glo as the second.  This will give you a nice natural colour rendition.  What you could do is replace just one of the present tubes with a Life-Glo, and then in 6 months replace the other (older) tube with a Sun-Glo, or Aqua-Glo if you prefer.
 
I have stayed with the Hagen "Glo" line as you appear familiar with it and obviously have access to purchasing them.  But another line almost if not equally as good is ZooMed.  Their UltraSun is the same as the Life-Glo, so a nice 6500K daylight, and their "plant" tube is the Flora-Sun.  This like the Aqua-Glo is rather purplish, but when combined with the 6500K should work.  Or you could have two UltraSun tubes.  I use the Life-Glo over all my single-tube tanks because it produces good light and is the most intense T8 aquarium lighting so it is ideal when you want good light without increasing the lighting.  I have used the ZooMed but don't know simply because no one locally carries it any longer.
 
The plants outlined in one of the photos appear to be Vallisneria (the right-of-centre tall grass-like plant), and the other in the left rear I'm not sure, it could be Wisteria or Water Sprite (the non-floating variety).
 
Another question, what is the GH of your source (tap) water?  This is the prime source of the "hard" minerals, and as these appear to be absent from the Neutro T I want to make sure you have sufficient.
 
Byron.

 

[Byron]

I'm in a very similar situation to you, FingersofFish.  I also have T8 lights over a 120L tank and I've been thinking carefully about changing or upgrading them.
 
The difference is my tank is only 2ft wide and nearly 2ft deep (it's a Juwel Lido) so I have 2x 15W = 30W over a deep 31 USG tank whereas you have 40W over a 32 USG tank which means your tank is probably 3ft wide and a normal depth.
 
So if I compare your situation to mine, your lighting sounds about right to me.  I'd say that your T8 lights are sufficient for your tank and your plants and you should stick with T8 because T5HO would be too strong.
 
However I'm still not sure about my lighting.  I've suffered badly with algae in this tank and I want to start again with a Walstad dirt approach.  I'm concerned that my T8's are too weak but scared that T5HO could be too strong.  Byron, DrRob - I hope the OP doesn't mind me sharing his thread but I'd appreciate your advice about lighting for my tank too!

 
Here I would also suggest staying with T8, but upgrade the tubes.  I don't know what you have now, but the Life-Glo is about as good as it gets in T8 over planted tanks.  This is actually the lighting Diana recommends, by which I mean the spectrum (6500K).  It provides highs in the red, blue and green; plants need the red and blue to photosynthesize, and the green used to be thought useless, but Diana makes a very good case for why this addition always seems to improve plant response.  It is the additional intensity more than the colour.  But as she writes, plants in nature are getting this very light, so simulating it would make sense.
 
As i mentioned in my previous response to the OP, I use the4 Life-Glo over my single tube tanks and have had good results for many years.  And I've tried others, as experiments, but failure abounded.
 
This is my 33g with a single 25w Life-Glo, first photo as it was for a couple years before I re-set it, and you can see how well the plants did.  Seachem Flourish Comprehensive Supplement once a week, nothing else.  The second photo is June 29, 2011, and the first is January 2012, showing how the chain swords took off.  And I had floating plants too.
 
Byron.

 

[daizeUK]

Thanks for the advice Byron.  I've always used the cheapest bulbs I can find with a Daylight spectrum.  I should mention that I also use reflectors (although I don't think they were doing much good until I recently realised how caked up with limescale they were and cleaned them!)
 
Life Glo tubes don't seem to be abundantly available online in the UK but I think my LFS may stock them so I'll check there.  They look to be at least 5x the cost of my usual bulbs though, very expensive.

 

[Byron]

Thanks for the advice Byron.  I've always used the cheapest bulbs I can find with a Daylight spectrum.  I should mention that I also use reflectors (although I don't think they were doing much good until I recently realised how caked up with limescale they were and cleaned them!)
 
Life Glo tubes don't seem to be abundantly available online in the UK but I think my LFS may stock them so I'll check there.  They look to be at least 5x the cost of my usual bulbs though, very expensive.

 
Yes, they are expensive, but they are at least twice the intensity of comparable tubes, as I discovered during my experiments.
 
I use the 4-foot "cheap" tubes over my larger tanks that have two T8 tubes, the Phillips or Sylvannia or GE brands, both 5000K and 6500K, and they work fine.  But over the single tube tanks with the shorter length tubes these tubes were not sufficient.  I suppose with two of them you might be in better shape, you could try.
 
The ZooMed series is much the same as the "Glo" and slightly less expensive, at least over here.  There may be others but I don't like to suggest what I haven't tried.
 
Byron.

 

[FingersofFish]

Hi there, thanks for the very detailed explanation and advice yet again.

After looking this morning I can confirm the tank had two different tubes, a 26in Fluval aqua glo and a 26in fluval power glo both 20w T8s. As I've only recently replanted I'm only currently using the lights on a 6h a day timer.

As for the ferts I can't find a complete analysis of neutro t, however it is described as complete micronutrients, where as neutro + is described as micro+macro nutrients.

As for liquid carbon, I actually use EasyLife EasyCarbo as its cheaper, more readily available and lasts a lot longer - but again I don't know its chemical analysis.

Either way I dose 6mL neutro t and 2.2mL liquid carbo daily, I also have root sticks but alas no substrate due to being short sighted when I was new to the hobby.

Hope this helps.
Oops forgot to add, the GH of my water is 225 or that may be dH I can't remember the measurement.

 

[FingersofFish]

Sorry for keep adding things, but I must say the only picture of my current set up on photobucket is this one, the others are of a previous (LED lit) 70L tank I owned as in my signature.

 

[daizeUK]

Very beautiful!
Do your tubes have reflectors? If not then fitting some reflectors could be the cheapest intensity upgrade for you - but only if you run into problems and you feel that you really do need more light.

 

[FingersofFish]

Thank you daize, I was always very envious of your Lido when I started out last year so your feedback is very welcome!

As for reflectors, I have some white cowling around the bulbs but I always associated white with absorbing light. Would mirrored reflectors make a difference?

 

[daizeUK]

Yes they would.  White reflects light (black absorbs it) but mirrored reflectors are far superior.  I use the Arcadia ones, they just clip on to my T8's.

 

[FingersofFish]

Okay I may get some of those, as well as get some new bulbs upon Byrons further advice.