and that then relates back to the fact that if you have an empty vessel i.e a bottle, bucket, cup, glass, etc etc and you played it like a drum or blew into it, it would make more noise than if it were full. This then relates to the bit Seffie was explaining, so it has a double meaning. It wasn't aimed at you though Fishy I was expecting abuse from everyone with 1000 plus posts, oh and it wasn't a pop at Woody either..................oh how I wish I hadn't started this...........but I will blame Seffie for the first post after me saying someone would feel the need to....................oh good Lord just pass the shovel.