Killer Tank Strikes Again

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kribensis12

I know where you live
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So, I'm starting to think that my fish tank is killing my fish (I know, sounds like I don't know anything and am the culprit) so I wanted to post this here and get input from others.

About a year ago, I set up a 10g tank and after cycling it, placed a beautiful, healthy pair of cockatoo apistogrammas for a breeding project. Within a day, they stopped eating. Within the next day they began to hover near the top. I placed additional aeration to the tank wondering if it was oxygen depravation. Within the next day, they lost their ability so control their bodies and died within hours of each other. For all the specifics, you can recount my loss here. After that incident I drained the tank and filled it back up and started all over)

Since that day, the 10g has been up and running without issue. I used it as a quarantine tank for a very sickly black ram cichlid (who made it!) and then for a breeding pair of golden ram cichlids. Those rams had a batch of babies and I moved the parents out.

Fast forward to now:

The ram fry have been doing very well. Extremely healthy, eating lots of baby brine shrimp and loving life. I have been prepping a 30g for them to be transferred to and two evenings ago did a 30% WC on the tank and added pure RO. The TDS of the tank was a bit higher than normal, so I didn't remineralize the RO. The next morning, all of the fish ate and acted normal except 1 - I found one small fry barely alive. Thinking it was just part of raising fry, I fed it to my breeding pair of cockatoo apistogramma. Yesterday evening I discovered all of the fry hanging to the very top of the tank. I immediately added aeration (sound familiar yet?) and within 30 minutes they were not near the top any more. Almost all of them looked very sickly - clamped fins with a white foggy color to the very tips of their fins (no growth though, like a fungus or fin rot). I immediately did a 50% water change (more R/O, this time remineralized so there would be no pH swing) and added it. I also dosed the tank with aquuarium salt (2 tsp per gallon) hoping that if it were some disease that it would help and also added a anti-bacterial fish medication (it uses essential oils - used it before; it's safe) hoping in my desperation SOMETHING would work.

This morning, I woke up to a graveyard. I had at least 15 fry dead, laying all over the bottom of the tank.

I immediately caught all of the remaining fry (probably 30) and began to acclimate them to the 30g (which uses the exact same water that the 10g has, all of my tanks do) and have since moved them over. I have since lost at least 5 more - but the ones that seemed somewhat okay seem to now be doing better.

So friends - is my 10g aquarium a killer or am I an idiot that managed to kill a breeding pair of cockatoos in their prime and now a large percentage of my prized ram fry?

To answer the same question everyone will have:

Parms: Ammonia - 0, Nitrite - 0, Nitrate - 0 (just did gravel vac with WC which is why its 0)
Temp: 87F
yes it's cycled
Did I add anything new to the tank? No, nothing has changed in 7 weeks.
 
Are you certain that your heater is functioning correctly? I had a freak accident several years ago with a large tank with large fish. At the time I was running a pair of Fluval glass heaters. Well, the large parrot fish in that tank freaked for whatever reason and banged about the tank, connecting with one of the heaters. I did a cursory look, everything appeared fine, I went to bed. By morning everyone was gulping, clapped and looking poorly. I DID NOT HAVE A RELIABLE THERMOMETER ON THE TANK AT THE TIME:<!!!! I did not realize the fish were being cooked until I touched the water by hand. I lost 5 fish before I got everything back in proper order.
 
Are you certain that your heater is functioning correctly? I had a freak accident several years ago with a large tank with large fish. At the time I was running a pair of Fluval glass heaters. Well, the large parrot fish in that tank freaked for whatever reason and banged about the tank, connecting with one of the heaters. I did a cursory look, everything appeared fine, I went to bed. By morning everyone was gulping, clapped and looking poorly. I DID NOT HAVE A RELIABLE THERMOMETER ON THE TANK AT THE TIME:<!!!! I did not realize the fish were being cooked until I touched the water by hand. I lost 5 fish before I got everything back in proper order.
Yup! It's fairly new and the digital thermometer has it at 87, which is what I set it to.
 
It is possible that at one point the tank had chemicals used on it (unless you got it brand new), which leached into the seals and is now leaching back into the water. But then it should have had an effect on all fish, not just 2 batches.

Does the tank maybe get sun during the day? That can cause temperature swings, I think.

Other than that, I honestly have no idea.
 
Does anyone spray any sort of air freshener/cleaner/deodorant in the room that the tank is in?
 
It is possible that at one point the tank had chemicals used on it (unless you got it brand new), which leached into the seals and is now leaching back into the water. But then it should have had an effect on all fish, not just 2 batches.

Does the tank maybe get sun during the day? That can cause temperature swings, I think.

Other than that, I honestly have no idea.
It's in my basement and gets minimal sunlight through an egress window. Basement is a constant 67 degrees.

It is a very old, used tank. Possible that there is a contaminant but as you said, it should affect everything...
 
Heck, °C is hotter than °F I believe... Either way that's pretty darn warm
 
87°F? Or 87°C? 87°F seems really really warm for fish...

Heck, °C is hotter than °F I believe... Either way that's pretty darn warm

87F is very warm, yes.

This is the temperature commonly used by fish breeders to grow out many cichlids including Rams, Angelfish, Discus etc.

Ram Cichlids live in an environment where the temp is commonly 82-85F so you can see that 87 is not much of a difference.

When I had the cockatoos that passed, the temp was set to 81F.
 
What is your pH on this tank, with the swings as well?
It is a very stable 7.2. I have never noticed a fluctuation in pH, but I'm sure there is some variation. Every tanks pH naturally fluctuates minutely.

I keep an eye on the TDS of my tanks as that indicates high kH and gH and my fish are sensitive to hard water (hence the RO filter).

I keep many rams and other softwater fish in other tanks which have the same routine/maintenance and they are thriving.
 
I think your temperature is too high.
You can only set to 87F high for Discus that are sick and not eating.
For Rams, you can set up to 85F.
86F is for treating ich if the fish can withstand the heat.

For other fish, it should be below 85F in my opinion.
Warm temperature will reduce the oxygen level. If you have many fish, the tank may also run out of oxygen.
If your thermometer is malfunctioned or not accurate, you could be roasting your fish.
Watch this video:


Anyway, any mass dying or fast dying of fish means you have toxic in the water or bacteria such as Columnaris that can kill them fast or you are altering the water GH, pH.
Bacteria will kill faster than parasites.

For any toxic in the water, just change 100% of water will solve the problem.
You can also use carbon if you suspect something is continuously leeching toxic.

By the way, did you alter the GH, pH?
I heard of a few cases of fish dying quickly due to altering the water pH.
pH should not change more than 0.5 or 0.2-0.3(for sensitive fish) in 24 hours.


For how to save fish affected by toxic, you can also watch the below video from 9 minutes onward.

 
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First off I used to breed large numbers of Apistogramma cacatuoides. Any pair in a 10 gallon is facing death from stress. The tank is too small for their needs, and I would almost expect what happened.

Cacatuoides will die at 87. Rams come from sunlit Llanos habitats, basically savannahs, and they have adapted to hot water. Apistos are generally from more shaded forest habitats, and I bred and raised them at 25-26C max.

Second, the ram fry do tend to die easily, as a delicate species. But you must maintain water stability with fry. Pure RO? Did you change the hardness of their water and blow out their kidneys? That's a blackwater species from almost pure water, bred to tolerate soft tap water and to survive in harder tanks. But any bounce around in hardness levels can kill fry.
 

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