keeping a threatened species

[The-Wolf]

hi all
We have some "butterfly rasboras" at work.
after doing a significant search on fishbase I think they are actually
rasbora vaterifloris Fire rasbora aka Vateria Flower Rasbora
(for scandinavians aka Perlemorsrasbora or Helmiäisrasbora)

now fish base has these listed as
Threatened by overfishing for aquarium trade, deforestation and pollution.
so the moral dilema is
If I buy these fish am I not just adding to their demand and therfor to their demise, or seeing as they are already in the retail sector, buying them has no effect on the wild population?

Yours in confusement
The-Wolf

 

[fishwatcher]

I think since they are already there, you might as well give them a good home.

 

[OohFeeshy]

I'd say get them. If they really are that rare, the shop will probably have trouble getting them again. Plus, what would you prefer? You getting them, or some newbie who kills them with a nitrite spike? Plus, after you buy them, you could remark that you found they are endangered and the shop shouldn't get them again.

 

[wrs]

maybe you would even be able to mate them, who knows.

I would go for them as well.

 

[MAM]

Its a tough decision. You want to take them home so that someone who knows nothing about htem doesn't buy them first. But at the same time you don't want to buy them only to find that the shop sees it as "Oooo, we sold them! Lets order more" and therefore contribute to hurting the wild population of that species.

Maybe if you found for sure that they are or are not indeed that threatened species (as opposed to some color morph that resembles them), and if you could find out if these fish are directly imported from the wild or if by chance they were tank bred, that might help in your decision.

 

[The-Wolf]

if you could find out if these fish are directly imported from the wild or if by chance they were tank bred, that might help in your decision.

Thats a good point Mam; I'll phone the wholesalers tomorrow and check.

 

[Undawada]

The effects of marketing and the environment are usually indirect.

Every purchase, however small, creates a vacuum in the inventory which is filled, usually with the same product. If the product is a living fish that is disappearing in the wild, the purchase is contributing to their demise.

Is it possible these fish are captively bred? I think it is good to be aware of where your fish come from and if they are threatened. Perhaps if you find that out for sure, inform your boss. That would be responsible of you

I'm happy that you are actually taking the time to think about this. Congrats, Wolf!

 

[annka5]

I agree with undawadda; if you don't want to see these things for sale, then you shouldn't buy them. Assuming they aren't tank bred, and are taken from the wild.
I'd go a step further nad say that the supply of rare and endangered fish taken from the wild should be illegal, in the same way that most other animals /plants is.
You wouldn't buy ivory on the basis that the elephant was dead now so it "wouldn't matter". There's ni difference when it comes to the supply of live animals.
Maybe you could give it a better home than the next person who walks into the shop, but I don't think thats the point.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

I agree basically with what everyone else has said and im just some of you have heard me rant on from time to time about taking fish from the wild and whatnot; just a thought though, i myself plan to try and breed endangered fish species as i gather knolege and find space for some realy big tanks- why not try breeding the fish yourself?
The majority of fish can be bred in captivity and in most cases its just a matter of researching the fish's natural enviroment, the weather, plants, substrate, strength of water current, other fish and everything in the water etc etc and re-creating it a large tank- its a very time consuming and money eating thing but if you could breed a rare fish in captivity it would mean less would be taken from the wild and so you'd be doing a good thing for the enviroment in general

 

[annka5]

I guess thats the thing - if you can and will breed them successfully for commercial sale then it would be great.
However, thats going to depend a lot on how many you can purchase (in-breeding when you breed a second or third generation) and whether it is commercially feasible to tank breed rather than catch from the wild - sadly, would come down to profitability.
IMO this is not something you should do lightly as a way of feeling better about keeping endangered species, but because you want to do it and have the time, money space, contacts and expereince to make it possible; also back-up in case you're ill or need to go away for a week or two, etc etc.

 

[George Farmer]

That is a tricky one.

I guess it depends on how "principled" you want to be. Does a vegetarian eat meat if he's really hungry and the cow is dead anyway? (Sorry that's a terrible analogy).

I'd buy them personally.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

I work at home doing art and illustrations and stuff and rarely ever get ill, so i don't think i should be a problem for me if i attempt this in my scenario; Once a breeder knows what to do to breed a fish and how to go about it and raising the fry etc, they will breed the fish commercialy themselves- all i want to do is figure out how to breed the fish and raise its fry successfully to start with and then pass the information onto a good breeder for them to do it commercialy .
The reason why alot of commercial fish breeders don't bother trying to breed fish that havn't been bred in captivitybefore is because the whole situation is very dodgey and can take years to figure out and they don't want to waste money and time doing that when there are so many fish that people already know how to breed, but most fish that were breed for the first time in captivity are done by real fish geeks and enthusiasts and not the breeders themselves and then this info was passed on etc.

 

[annka5]

Tokis: I completely agree with you; what I have a problem with is buying endangered species thinking "oh, well, I could always breed them and that would make it OK" rather than starting out with wanting to breed an endangered species and therefore buying some.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

......???

 

[The-Wolf]

OK I have spoken to the wholesalers and they have contacted the exporters who assured the wholesalers they are tank bred.
The exporters also have a policy in place where they release a quarter of what they breed of this species (and other threatened/endangered species) back into their natural habitat.
I have still not decided on wether I'm going to buy any or not.