Apologies for the long read, it is detailed.
We started fish keeping in December 2018, and around February 2019 we made a terrible decision to purchase some Ramshorn snails off eBay to help with cleaning algae off the tank as we'd read snails are good at that. It worked, but we didn't realise Ramshorn snails are prolific breeders as we hadn't done snail research. The tank soon got overwhelmed with them. Then came our next mistake in April - purchasing Assassin snails off eBay thinking we could control their population. Unknown to us a pond snail had hitched a ride in the package, and we assumed it was just a baby assassin. Nice, a free extra snail! Wrong, this soon reproduced to the point where their numbers were higher than the Ramshorns. At that point I looked at photos of snail species to determine these weren't baby assassin snails but actually pond snails. By June there were literally piles of snails everywhere you look in this 190 litre tank. I'll never forget the horror of seeing about 30 of them feasting on the corpse of a fish inside one of our tank decorations.
Shortly after introducing the Assassin snails our dalmation molly that we had since the start died of what appeared to be a swim bladder infection. He went from healthy to dead in the space of about two days. At this point snail populations were manageable, but still things went from bad to worse. Next, in May our gold/black molly lost the use of his tail and started thinning out until he passed away at the end of the month. We then started seeing guppies developing bent spines seemingly overnight and eventually passing away. Sometimes we'd not even find the remains because the snails would turn them to skeletons overnight. In June we found one of our pink female swordtails floating on the top of the tank and this was even more alarming as the fish had shown no symptoms of anything being wrong. It was healthy and energetic one day and dead the next, possibly stressed from being chased by guppies 1/3 of its size. We knew at this point something was seriously wrong with this tank but couldn't figure out what.
Throughout I had been keeping an eye on water parameters (ammonia and nitrates etc) and nothing was flagging up as bad. Google searches led to horror stories about fish TB as the symptoms (bent spines, bulging eyes etc) were similar. But if so then how could this have gotten into the tank? We assumed it was down to our snail mistakes - they could have been carriers as god knows where they came from. Never buying anything like that from eBay again. At this point we decided we had to get the fish out of there and eliminate the snail population.
We bought a temporary tank (110 litres) a bit smaller than our main tank (190 litres) and put the fish in there - apart from three that looked like they would be next to die. A very skinny dalmatian molly, a guppy with a bent spine and a black phantom tetra that was swimming odd and had somehow lost its sight. These were quarantined in a small tank (15 litres) and they did indeed deteriorate to the point where we felt it best to euthanize them. The temporary tank allowed us to tear down the main tank, throw away the gravel, rid it of snails and start fresh. Even the filter media was binned as it was infested with snails. This tank is still dried out while we buy bits and pieces needed to get it back up and running.
Due to the urge to get the fish out of the infested tank we couldn't fully cycle the temporary tank. Aware of ammonia dangers we've been doing more regular water changes and testing the tank constantly in case of a spike. We've been treating fish for various conditions thinking they had fin rot, parasites or worms. And treated fir white spot which our cardinal tetras seemed to have. We obviously didn't mix treatments, one at a time. But still fish keep dying. Yesterday we noticed a molly sitting upside down on the bottom - it was perfectly healthy the day before. It swam about when food was dropped in before going back to the bottom. I put some swim bladder treatment in thinking it was that but today it was dead. A guppy was also found dead this morning with no explanation or prior symptoms. We also have a black phantom in this tank showing the same symptoms as the last one that died. Seemed to have been like that since it was put in there but wasn't quite as far gone as the other so it never got quarantined. We also have another molly which is very thin and showing symptoms other have passed away from in the past, though no bent spine.
I don't know what's going on, we seem to be losing fish one by one. Only the Cardinal Tetras seem to be doing well as we haven't lost any. Our tank is made up of:
10 Cardinal Tetras
4 Black Phantom Tetras
8 Mollies (5 of which are offspring of other mollies)
5 Guppies (3 are small offspring)
4 Swordtails
I realise this is too many for the 110 litre tank but it was about right for the 190 given the small size of the tetras and the babies that we can't stop being bred. The plan was to get the 190 back up and running this month with new gravel but I am worried these fish are all infected with TB and I don't really want to until fish stop dying.
What do you suggest is the best course of action for these fish?
I am leaning towards keeping them as permanent quarantine in the smaller tank and setting the 190 back up with new fish but that seems a bit drastic as some of these fish are probably fine. However I am worried they are all infected with TB and will infect any new fish we put in with them. We replaced the original mollies with new mollies back in May and the new fish are the first to die - in fact we've lost 4 of the 5 mollies we bought a couple of months ago and the 5th is the thin one I mentioned earlier. Yet we still have two of our original mollies bought in December and 5 of their offspring - all looking healthy apart from the male who fathered them. He seemed to have some fin rot which I've treated but he's still not 100%. Or maybe he has TB, as fin rot is a symptom.
These fish have lifespans of up to 5 years and that's a long time to keep a second tank running in quarantine when we only want one tank. We could also move them all back to the 190 tank and never buy a new fish until they all pass away but that too seems drastic as we obviously would eventually like to replace fish that die with new ones. But we have decided we won't be buying a new fish again until we go a month or two without losing one. We do plan to do a full cycle on the 190 litre tank before moving the fish back there - if they go back there as well.
But I am completely lost as to why fish keep dying and can only put it down to TB. Please help.
We started fish keeping in December 2018, and around February 2019 we made a terrible decision to purchase some Ramshorn snails off eBay to help with cleaning algae off the tank as we'd read snails are good at that. It worked, but we didn't realise Ramshorn snails are prolific breeders as we hadn't done snail research. The tank soon got overwhelmed with them. Then came our next mistake in April - purchasing Assassin snails off eBay thinking we could control their population. Unknown to us a pond snail had hitched a ride in the package, and we assumed it was just a baby assassin. Nice, a free extra snail! Wrong, this soon reproduced to the point where their numbers were higher than the Ramshorns. At that point I looked at photos of snail species to determine these weren't baby assassin snails but actually pond snails. By June there were literally piles of snails everywhere you look in this 190 litre tank. I'll never forget the horror of seeing about 30 of them feasting on the corpse of a fish inside one of our tank decorations.
Shortly after introducing the Assassin snails our dalmation molly that we had since the start died of what appeared to be a swim bladder infection. He went from healthy to dead in the space of about two days. At this point snail populations were manageable, but still things went from bad to worse. Next, in May our gold/black molly lost the use of his tail and started thinning out until he passed away at the end of the month. We then started seeing guppies developing bent spines seemingly overnight and eventually passing away. Sometimes we'd not even find the remains because the snails would turn them to skeletons overnight. In June we found one of our pink female swordtails floating on the top of the tank and this was even more alarming as the fish had shown no symptoms of anything being wrong. It was healthy and energetic one day and dead the next, possibly stressed from being chased by guppies 1/3 of its size. We knew at this point something was seriously wrong with this tank but couldn't figure out what.
Throughout I had been keeping an eye on water parameters (ammonia and nitrates etc) and nothing was flagging up as bad. Google searches led to horror stories about fish TB as the symptoms (bent spines, bulging eyes etc) were similar. But if so then how could this have gotten into the tank? We assumed it was down to our snail mistakes - they could have been carriers as god knows where they came from. Never buying anything like that from eBay again. At this point we decided we had to get the fish out of there and eliminate the snail population.
We bought a temporary tank (110 litres) a bit smaller than our main tank (190 litres) and put the fish in there - apart from three that looked like they would be next to die. A very skinny dalmatian molly, a guppy with a bent spine and a black phantom tetra that was swimming odd and had somehow lost its sight. These were quarantined in a small tank (15 litres) and they did indeed deteriorate to the point where we felt it best to euthanize them. The temporary tank allowed us to tear down the main tank, throw away the gravel, rid it of snails and start fresh. Even the filter media was binned as it was infested with snails. This tank is still dried out while we buy bits and pieces needed to get it back up and running.
Due to the urge to get the fish out of the infested tank we couldn't fully cycle the temporary tank. Aware of ammonia dangers we've been doing more regular water changes and testing the tank constantly in case of a spike. We've been treating fish for various conditions thinking they had fin rot, parasites or worms. And treated fir white spot which our cardinal tetras seemed to have. We obviously didn't mix treatments, one at a time. But still fish keep dying. Yesterday we noticed a molly sitting upside down on the bottom - it was perfectly healthy the day before. It swam about when food was dropped in before going back to the bottom. I put some swim bladder treatment in thinking it was that but today it was dead. A guppy was also found dead this morning with no explanation or prior symptoms. We also have a black phantom in this tank showing the same symptoms as the last one that died. Seemed to have been like that since it was put in there but wasn't quite as far gone as the other so it never got quarantined. We also have another molly which is very thin and showing symptoms other have passed away from in the past, though no bent spine.
I don't know what's going on, we seem to be losing fish one by one. Only the Cardinal Tetras seem to be doing well as we haven't lost any. Our tank is made up of:
10 Cardinal Tetras
4 Black Phantom Tetras
8 Mollies (5 of which are offspring of other mollies)
5 Guppies (3 are small offspring)
4 Swordtails
I realise this is too many for the 110 litre tank but it was about right for the 190 given the small size of the tetras and the babies that we can't stop being bred. The plan was to get the 190 back up and running this month with new gravel but I am worried these fish are all infected with TB and I don't really want to until fish stop dying.
What do you suggest is the best course of action for these fish?
I am leaning towards keeping them as permanent quarantine in the smaller tank and setting the 190 back up with new fish but that seems a bit drastic as some of these fish are probably fine. However I am worried they are all infected with TB and will infect any new fish we put in with them. We replaced the original mollies with new mollies back in May and the new fish are the first to die - in fact we've lost 4 of the 5 mollies we bought a couple of months ago and the 5th is the thin one I mentioned earlier. Yet we still have two of our original mollies bought in December and 5 of their offspring - all looking healthy apart from the male who fathered them. He seemed to have some fin rot which I've treated but he's still not 100%. Or maybe he has TB, as fin rot is a symptom.
These fish have lifespans of up to 5 years and that's a long time to keep a second tank running in quarantine when we only want one tank. We could also move them all back to the 190 tank and never buy a new fish until they all pass away but that too seems drastic as we obviously would eventually like to replace fish that die with new ones. But we have decided we won't be buying a new fish again until we go a month or two without losing one. We do plan to do a full cycle on the 190 litre tank before moving the fish back there - if they go back there as well.
But I am completely lost as to why fish keep dying and can only put it down to TB. Please help.