Just One Cycled Tank-is It Too Much To Ask?

[ellena]

I need a rant, and if anyone has any advice for me too, then so much the better
I bought my first tank at easter. I have been fishless cycling it since (10 weeks) and it's still not done, even started off with filter rinsings, then half the media replaced with mature
I have taken small amounts of media from it for 2 other filters. One in my betta tank (1) in which stats are quite low, but not showing any signs of dropping on their own.
The other a sponge filter I made myself which is in a fishless cycle at work and progressing nicely.
I cycled some media from a filter for another betta tank (2) in with my main tank for 7 weeks and now it's in with the betta, it may as well not be there. It had very high nitrites at first and I was water changing 3 times a day to keep them down to 0. Then 6 days in, I realised I had to keep stats at about 0.25, not 0 as then the bacteria wouldn't have anything to feed on. I've had a few signs of nitrites since then, but very little and ammonia isn't being processed at all. It just gradually increases, I do a water change and it builds up again.
I just want a tank with a fish in that I can relax and not worry about. Betta (2) is supposed to live at work, but it was only there 4 days until the first weekend, then the stats has been so all over the place, I didn't dare leave it so it's been at home since and for the forseeable future.
I knew there was going to be some patience required, but 10 weeks in and I'm still doing water checks twice a day and water changes up to once a day-it's killing me!
I've got through a whole set of API ammonia testing kits and I'm sick of trying to decide whether it's yellow or a tint of green.
I am thinking of putting the media from betta tank (2) back in the main fishless cycling tank and replacing it with fresh from there. It means it will set the main tank back (again!) but it might be worth it if I can stop having to worry about and constantly check betta (2).
Thoughts, advice and words of encouragement gratefully received

 

[meguro]

You're not supposed to do any water changes when fishless cycling. So it's unsurprising that it's taking so long. Temperature and pH also play a part so you might want to post your stats for those. Also, you should try to avoid test strips as they can be horribly inaccurate as opposed to liquid tests.

 

[ellena]

It's the fish in cycling where I'm doing changes. I only do them on the fishless when the pH crashes. I'm using the API liquid test kits.

 

[waterdrop]

I think I remembered ellena as pretty much knowing all the right things to do for both fish-in and fishless cycles, so I doubt much would have been overlooked on purpose.

ellena, perhaps we can all start to pick things apart and someone will stumble on something that might be the problem.

I guess we could start by questioning the ammonia again. Is there any chance its got surfactants or something bad in it?

Also you might as well post of all sorts of stats...

~~waterdrop~~

 

[ellena]

Hi WD Ammonia is from Boots which I think lots of people have used. It doesn't foam at all.
At the moment, in the main fishless cycling tank, I'm getting 0 ammonia and 1 nitrites in 12 hrs, then 0,0 in 24 hrs. It's been doing that for a week (possibly longer, I managed to delete the excel file I was saving it all in ) This is the first time it's showed any kind of consistency. Before that, it was all over the place. It seemed to be working so many times, then it would stop again. Like when I added the mature media, I got 0,0 in 8 hrs, then it stopped.
I am just running a test as I type this, I added ammonia last night at 11pm (so my records say, I can't remember doing it ) and I have just got a 0,0, although the pH has crashed again and is at 6.4!
The pH crashes about once a week, although last time it did, bacteria performance seemed unaffected, still getting the 0,0 in 24hrs. When I tested I had low KH (5) and off the scale GH.
In the 2 betta tanks, (1) has immature media (a thin foam pad) but I have put 2 pieces of ceramic from the cycling tank in the filter inlet and outlet. There are low nitrites and little ammonia, so I think that one's getting somewhere.
In tank (2), all the media was cycled in the main tank before adding. Nitrites got really high in the first couple of days though, so I added a couple of pieces of ceramic too. Then I possibly messed up by trying to keep the stats to 0 and killed the bacteria, so I think I will try swapping over the media tonight.
I have read over the pinned posts again and again to see if there's something I'm doing wrong, but I can't see anything.
I'm off on holiday again in about a month. I had thought I'd be cycled for my last holiday, but I had to put a bag of food in while I was away. This time, it's more complicated as I have fish to consider, so I really hope the filters are settled in the betta tanks. I'm not even thinking about getting fish for the main tank, even if it has cycled-that would be too much worry!

 

[Tolak]

Try doubling up on the dechlorinator used for replacement water.

 

[waterdrop]

Try doubling up on the dechlorinator used for replacement water.

Yes, that's a good suggestion. 2x recommended dosing of the conditioner in case you are getting bursts of too much chlorine/chloramine from your water people. Can't hurt!

Is this your 25 liter bowl or your 96 liter tank?

I sometimes wonder about the tiny filters that get used on these little setups.. Also, even though the period of time you've been doing all these things seems long, part of the story is that you've been stealing media from this main setup --while it was trying to fishless cycle -- and then continuing on. Its possible the fledgling bacteria were not so evenly distrubuted on the media and the bulk might have been taken away in one of these transfers, setting you back significantly if not essentially starting you over.

Of course, your latest report is now beginning to sound like some normal fishless cycling, which is a good sign. Perhaps you're finally getting somewhere.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[craig855s]

id recomend using twice the amount of water conditioner also. What temp is the tank set to?

It seems as though ur almost there with the main tank (other than the PH crash) and if i were in ur shoes i'd probably just say "screw it" and chuck some fish in now to provide a consistant ammonia source and just do regular water changes (i imagine as ur so far along ur ammonia wont go over .25 mega quick with u being so close to the end,water changes will still be needed but maybe only one every 36 hours)

 

[ellena]

Right, I have recently bought pond dechlor, so double dosing shouldn't be a probem-I'll do that.
WD, it's the 25l bowl-I haven't even thought about setting the big one up yet!
craig-if it weren't for the holiday, I would do just that and chuck the fish in, but I daren't as I have noone I could ask to care for them other than a bit of food while I'm away

 

[ellena]

I decided today to do the media swap. Although I have done it twice already, thought it was worth another go! So I have taken sponge from over the filter outlet and several bits of ceramics and filled both betta filters with them.
The cycling tank I took them from has been at ammonia 0 nitrites 1 @12hs, then 0,0 @24hrs for a couple of weeks now, so should be able to cope with a betta I hope

 

[ellena]

It would seem they can't cope with a betta. I came down today, expecting high nitrites, or a mircle and a 0,0. But no, the ammonia levels are 0.25, exactly the same as they were yesterday. Barely any nitrites in rufus' tank, and 0.25 in Levi's which I would have expected as they were building up yesterday.
Both filters are definitely working, drawing water through. And the partly cycled media I used was reliably getting ammonia from 5ppm to 0 in less than 12 hours.
I am really dreading going on holiday if they aren't ready.
So sick of reading on here about how cloning a tank makes it instantly cycled-this is the second time I've tried and it just doesn't work. What am I doing wrong?
Please if anyone can provide any insight, this is really getting to me now

 

[waterdrop]

...wish I'd thought of something new!

 

[ellena]

Thanks for reading anyway
I have looked for a new filter for Rufus' bowl today. When I changed the media it was rattling really noisily for ages, and I wondered if it might be the problem with cycling too. Because it's a bowl though, even the interpet mini is too big. The one I have is a hagen elite mini and it seems it's the only one that will fit, so I'm going to stick with it.Have just done more tests and ammonia seems to have dropped from this morning and nitrites stayed the same.
I say seems because I'm going cross eyed looking at the API colour chart. I used to have a low energy bulb that was perfect for reading them under, but it went

 

[waterdrop]

hi ellena,

just a quick note that I'm off in the mountains and don't have enough connectivity or time to chk things at the moment but will certainly try to review your fish-ins later. From a quick look I think you're doing everything right and I'm sure its just the usual frustration because tiny fish-in cycles with a betta are always very hard, they just don't give the normal feedback because the quantities of everything are so small- the problem with that being that your "snapshot" of testing at one point in time can just "miss" when the bacteria did their processing or when the chemicals were in excess. It just makes it very hard to tell what's gong on but I think you're doing the right things!

WD

 

[OldMan47]

Since your chemistry in the betta tank is improving with time, try leaving the filter to deal with the ammonia for a bit. I read recently that sodium thiosulphate, the stuff in almost any dechlorinator, can cause misleading results in an ammonia test but that the effect of the dechlorinator on the test results will be gone in about a day. Since most of the dechlorinators also make the ammonia less toxic, it would seem worthwhile giving it a bit of time for the filter to work rather than jumping right on the water change. This is far from my usual advice but your situation is far from normal too, and the extra piece of information seems to fit the pattern of your results.