jealous of those that can set up a nice "functional" tank, right from the start...

[Magnum Man]

I'll admit, most of my tanks look good to me ( really, that's what matters most ) and have gotten stable, to where I rarely lose fish, now... but for me , that "stability" seems to come several months, after the tank is running... my tanks cycle, and water is good, yet they seem to turn over fish for the 1st 4-6 months... some of that I think can be blamed on the fish... like my recently added hatchets to a very mature tank, I seem to lose 25 % or so, until the population "settles in" ... but on newer tanks, the fish could be a revolving door for the 1st several months... there must be more to it, than just cycling the tank for water quality... maybe it takes microbes, and bio film, to increase the "stability", maybe plant maturity... but some members seem to be able to set up a well researched tank, and maintain fish from the get go??? maybe they experience the same, and we just don't post about the carnage that goes with tank start up???

anyone else witness the same, and care to admit it, or give away some secrets to fish survival on newly set up tanks???

 

[GaryE]

The cycle is both important, and in my unpopular opinion, over-rated. You're right - you need a lot of life to get established in a tank for it to be smooth. Biofilm, non nitrifying bacteria and archaea, a while range of microbial life, plant life, etc. I consider a tank raw for the first 6 months.

You also like highly stocked tanks though, and light stocking has been the trick for me, for many years. When I stocked more densely, I had more losses. If I overstock, I get slapped by dead fish... and overstocking isn't the usual cycle based formulas the online stocking sites build from. When the fish numbers creep (or jolt) up, the tank tells you what its capacity is. It's a fact I hate, but can't escape.

I was doomed to have many tanks, I tell ya.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I seem to go against the grain here. Up until recently every summer is set up tanks on the screened terrace which is screened on 3 sides with the 4th being 1.2 of the end of the house. For some time I have nor cycled the tanks opting instead to use a bio-farm to cycle all the needed filters which were always air powered Poret cubefilters. The tanks ranged in size from a single 10 gal. then 20Ls and some years a 29 but more likely to be a couple of 40Bs and more recently a 50.

The tanks were a mix of being bare bottom and sand bottom tanks. For the most part they were not planted. The tanks with no plants were used exclusively for holing and/ or growing some the B&W Hypancustrus I was breeding= zebras, L236, L173 mostly. However, U also has a couple of thanks at times out there which served as Q tanks for new incoming fish. I actually had a few spawns happen in such tanks which surprised heck out of me.

ALl of the tanks were set up with rocks and driftwood in them . This was especially true for the ones that would be hosting the plecos. I have always believed that these tanks should have lots of wood, rocks and slate in them and often caves. However there was nothing for water movement in these tanks except for wind which was mostly blocked by the lids. Tehy all had heaters but these were set at a lower temp than they would be after they went into use.

Minimal direct sunlight could go into the tanks as the sun could only directly enter that terrace which faced north, east and west. No sun shines in from the north and the first half of the day it could not shine in from the east due to both trees and a 6 foot high sold fence for the pool. It was only from mid-afternoon to sunset when sun might shine in from the west. All of the backs of the tanks as well as the end facing west were either painted black or has black background on the end. Some even had both ends blacked.

The bio-farm was then started up. I is way less work to cyle filters in the farm than it is to cyles 8 tans of varying sizes. Also, some the tanks were stocked up to a few weeks earlier than others. However, the bio-farm was needed for fish use so the few unstocked tanks still got theior cycled filters but I dosed ammonia into them every few days to hold the cycle in the filter. other tanks had the filters put in followed bu fish either the seme or the next day. Once a tank was stiocked it was treted the samw way all my tanks are gettin weekly 50%+ water changes and being vacuumed.

Most of these tanks were sully stiocked in one go and it was not uncommon for them to be slightly overstocked, So the weekly main. was essential. The value of the fish in thises tanks was on the hight side. So losing fish was noy an option. Over the years I lost almost no fish at all and this included the tank or two for growing up fry for several months. And when those fish went to know homes very few dies in there new homes as well, At least not withint the first month or so being with new owners.

So, why did my methood seem to work so well? Or course the maint routine helped but I think also my well water gave a big assist. I have never used dechlor in my tanks. I almost never use any additives besides fertilizer in planted tanks. Many of those planted tanks have been dose woth Excel after a weekly water change. However, I only doses at the recommended level- I never overdose them and I never use Excel for algae killing. And as far as feeding was concerned the summer tanks got the same foods as the permamnet tanks insdie the house.

Finally, there were two temperature issues. Too hot and too cold. The first part was due to summer days into the 90sF and occasioannly ven topping 1000 for a dat or two. Of coruise the tanbks were sheltered from direct sunlight but unprotected from the ambieant temps. Ainxce most of the fish were from wermer environemts they help up well. The bigger problem was at the start and end of the outdoor tank season when the overnight temd could be in the mid 50s at their low and at the end of the season there was even an occasional overnoight low in the high 40sF.

All the tanks had anywhere from about 15-20 wpg in heaters. 20s got 300-400w and the 40Bs got 600-800 wpg. Mostly the tanks were ok as long as the overnight low was 55F or higher. WHen there was a single overnight drop below that and elsecially in to the high 40s and I would cover the tanks with big towels and blankets. Usually the fish would be going out all summer long. Indorr tanks also had space opening up as their fish went out. So at the end of the season all the tanks came down, the decor and water was removed and they remoained open until the next year.

The tanks would be set up and filled with water usually very late in May or during early June. The cycling began in the bio-farm and it generally was completed in two weeks are a few days longer. I batched my own ammoniaum chloride from dry and dosed it accorording to daily readings for ammonia. I almost never test for nitrite and never for nitrate. I did do water changes in the bio-farm every day at best and every other day at worst. I also ran a couple of bags of crushed coral in the bio-farm as they cycled since the bacteria/archaea used inorganic carbon pretty fast. I tested TDS daily to know when I needed to add more coral. Usakky the tabjks were all shut down in late Sept//early Oct. By then nightime lows meant thet were no longer fish safe.

It took me a couple of summers of the bio-farm to get the process down. I always knew I had issues when the ammonia level would stop dropping accompanied by a drop in TDS. The solution was usaually to add a second bag of the corral. I used this methodology for a number of years. So you tell me why this worked so well. The tanks were set-up and taken down in about 4.5 months give or take a week maybe two. So they did not have the 6 months GaryE mentioned. I know the fish were doing well during their time on the terrace and from talking to buyers after they got there fish and had them for a while I always check to see how the fish thy got were doing. So I had feedbaclk on this.

I have always been proud of the quality of fish born in my tanks and sent to new homes. I feel this way about my permament tanks as well. However, I am not perfect and over the 25 years I have kept fish I made a few dumb mistakes and wiped out a tank or two of fish. I once added a bucket full of chloineated water (from bleach) into the big bukcet of changing water. Early on I had a loss of half the fish in a bathroom tank after the maid came in to clean. Ever since then the bathrioom tanks get a thich bahmat put on them to cover the entire top and hang on filters and any air pump. The maid even knew to put them when I had not done so. That eneded any problems in those bathroom tanks from cleaning chemicals.

Today most of my 12 running tanks have been doing so for many years. My youngest tanks are a 20L set up for 10 Hoplixoma cw111 this past year and then a 29 gal. Q tank set up last along plus a going 29 that crashed and got restarted and restocked. The Q tanks seems to have morphed into a permamnet planted community. When I get new fish at my fish club meeting I know the members and that most have been keeping and breeding fish longer than I have. So such fish go into that 29 and a few into permanent tanlks. I consider the risk in this to be minimal unlike when I buy new fish from other sources. Most of the new fish I get are to replace some which have passed due to old age. I think the last fish I lost was a cory in the in-wall 75 community. It had been with me for a number of years. I also estimate that I still have about 175 fish, But I don't know the exact number of any fry not moved into a growout tank.

I agree that a truly mature tanks takes some time to etablish. But i also know this needs not to be the case in order to have a healthy tank where the fish do just fine. The most inportant factor in getting new fish is from where they come. I know I sell healthy fish but I would never tell a buyer not to Q them. That is entirely their decision to make not mine.

 

[Gertrudae]

When I set up a new tank, I use mulm from an established tank and usually plants from my other tanks. In the first few weeks to months, I put a lot of floating plants like hornwort, Najas, and Egeria in a new tank. In my opinion, having enough plants is essential for a quick start.
However, some tanks take time, sometimes months or even more than a year, to stabilize. With my setup, smaller tanks mature faster.

 

[GaryE]

I see a difference in what functional means here.

There are tanks I can set up for rapids fish, for example, and as long as I start with light stocking and a cycled filter, I'm in business immediately. A lot of my breeding tanks only have a live filter dropped in, and they work. They function. But their function is limited.

I think the intent was to discuss more complex tanks - community type tanks, where you strive to balance out plants, decor, micro-organisms etc. I can make a Steatocranus (Congo River rapids Cichlids) tank with a glass box, some rocks and a cycled filter - if I've done the planning for the filter, it's functioning in the time it takes to fill it and place the rocks and gravel.

But when I read @Magnum Man , he isn't asking about such a tank, as cool as they are.

I love those tanks because I love the fish in them. But more complex, semi aquascaped tanks are another game to me. They take time.

 

[Naughts]

I’m reading ‘functioning’ as supporting life for a reasonable length of time as that is what Magnum discusses.
Obviously a cycled tank is the starting point and there are endless threads which detail the tragedies if this is not prioritised.
If you can find a store that consistently sells healthy fish, stick with it. Then quarantine all new fish before adding them to the community, I do 4 weeks minimum. Regular substantial water changes support fish health in many ways, 50-75% every 1-2 weeks.
I think you could also look at the compatibility of the species you keep to ensure they have the correct parameters, set up, tank mates etc.

 

[GaryE]

Functional tanks don't function alone. A fully set up quarantine really matters, as @Naughts just pointed out. Not only do you protect your pets from introduced killers, but you have a clear view of the new fish, not hidden in a busy tank. You can treat basic problems you spot more easily.

I spend a fair bit on my fish, and have saved a lot of money through QT. I've also saved a lot of fish I grew to really like.

 

[gimme30]

There's a segment of people in the fishkeeping community who claim we're making too much of the cycle; That properly treated water in a new tank is safe for fish on day one, as long as it's maintained through daily water changes. These same people say that it can be fully stocked right away, then blather on about how that's how they've always done it and they never lose a fish. They'll post pictures of pristine new tanks as 'proof,' and laugh at the idea of seasoning. Sometimes accompanied by a test strip picture taken the day after startup showing what most would consider acceptable parameters. While most don't post follow-ups after some time has passed-why bother, their point has already been made-some do, and yep, their fish are surviving. Possibly even thriving, although it's hard to tell by a few static pics posted on a forum.

As to the OP, I think it boils down to dumb luck.
I'll admit, that's been the case for me.
My first fish was a goldfish I won at a carnival at the state fair. He lived in his little bowl for a few months until I was able to talk mom into buying a 'real' goldfish bowl. A couple years later I decided he was lonely and threw in a black moor. I overfed like crazy and only changed the water when it got so murky I couldn't see them anymore. No dechlor, just tap water. Overcrowded, no plants, no substrate, no filter, no variety in food. I should probably feel guilty about it but I was a typical clueless 8 year old. They made it 4 years until the cat decided he was the only one deserving of attention and knocked the bowl over.
By all accounts they never should have made it that long. They were either the toughest fish alive or I was just plain lucky.

After saving enough allowance to get a real aquarium mom took me to the lfs, where the owner was patient enough to explain the cycle to me in a way I could understand. I generally followed the process but being young and impatient probably not always to the letter. But, everything lived.

With one exception I have never lost a fish (besides fry) to anything other than predation or old age since. That's gotta be luck, because I've certainly made many mistakes over the years. I've never had to contend with any diseases either other than vicariously-my friends' tanks would get ich, or velvet, fin rot, dropsy, etc. All the usual common diseases, so I learned along with them how to treat those issues. But this is why you won't see me participating in threads trying to diagnose trouble.

It took a while before I recognized how much better livestock did in a mature tank, as opposed to just cycled, and these days I have no trouble letting a tank sit for months before even considering adding fish.