Is my puffer ok?

[Kopix Nation]

I bought a figure 8 puffer that I have lovingly named Butters short for Butter-Scotch. He is 3" long and eating alot! He has single handedly distroyed my snail population (yes!) and is very fat. He came from a store known as Incredapet. He was one of seven underfed puffers that were in with a freshwater eel. I was suprized those idiots put them in there! They all where missing parts of fins or had ich he was the best looking out of them all. I could not help it he was so sorry looking. But now he is fine. Hey how long will it take for his fins to heal and the ich (which I am treating) to go away?
I have him in with two bumblebee gobies 2"(Pollux, Caster), four mollies 4"(Ajax, Maggie, Stella, Attica, Comet), and two angelfish about quarter size bodies not including fins(Tuxitos, Kopix). Tey are all in a 20 gallon. I do alot of water changes and have two filters and an airstone.I have one amazon sword, cabomba, banana plant (which is doing really really really well),arrow head,dwarf lily,anachirs, and hoping to get some more hornwort.
Are figure 8 puffers true freshwater fish or brakish because I do put salt in there every water change for the mollies and gobies. He will be ok right. And yes I know that they are fin nippers but I am sure that If he is well fed it will not be a problem right?
I am so glade to be here and hope I can give some advise because I know a little or two about fish. I work at a fish store called Just Fish and beleive me I see them all!Oh and by the way call me Claire ok. My favorite angelfish is named Kopiz and since he is so handsome of a koi I thought my screen name should honor him. I know it is a little wierd naming fish but hey they are living things too they diserve a name or something not like angelfish1 or angelfish#36 that would be like naming a dog Dog#56 or something.

claire

P.S I have oscars too Montie(tiger oscar)10" and Ciara(tieland red)9 1/2" which are in a 60 gallon I am moving them soon into a 125 gallon i just need some moe time to get the space ready.

 

[SirMinion]

Hi Claire, welcome to TFF.

The figure eights and the bumble bee gobies do indeed need brackish water which is more than simply 'adding some salt'.
Brackish water is part marine and can only be achieved using a suprprisingly large amount of marine salt. Not aquarium salt, not cooking salt, not table salt and not tonic salt.

The mollies will most likely be happy in fresh or brackish but the angel fish will die a slow painful death if kept in water as salty as the puffers and gobies require.

And no, keeping puffers well fed will not stop them from attacking the other fish.

Last and certainly not least, as I'm sure you are aware, 20 gallons is far, far, far too small for all those fish but with your 60g being available soon it shouldn't be a problem.

Move the angels and mollies to the 60g and turn the 20g in a proper brackish tank for the puffer and gobies. You can upgrade the size later.

Oh... and there's nothing strange about naming your fish!

 

[Kopix Nation]

Even with two filters and constant water changes the tank is too small?That is funny my angelfish are doing great with the salty water... Funny oh well the puffer is doing fine and not picking on any other fish.
I was hoping to turn the 60g into a dutch aquarium you know the real planted aquariums. And then moving my angelfish into there. But I have seen mollies in full marine aquariums so they would be fine with the puffer and gobies. The angelfish are in the 20g for the moment lets just say they were impulse buys...You should see me when I go to the mall hehe.. They will be out of there soon I hope. It is just hard trying to find a good 125g at a good price. My oscars are my little "babies" I just wish they could stand to be in your normal aquariums.

claire

 

[Pufferpunk]

If your plants are still alive & thriving, then you aren't using nearly enough salt in your tank. You must use marine salt. F8s prefer a SG of 1.005. For me, this usually takes roughly around 1 cup of salt/5gal. As SirMinion said, the angels won't like that--neither will your plants. Work hard on getting that 125g soon, so everyone can get upgraded & the puffer can live happily in a BW environment. Soon enough, your pretty angels will be finless...

 

[SirMinion]

the puffer is doing fine and not picking on any other fish.

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Yep, that's how it always starts.

We tried tetras with our dwarf puffers once... everything was fine for for months then overnight we lost nine of the 11 tetras.

This is what a one inch Dwarf puffer can do to a tetra.

apologies for having to drag this photo out yet again to illustrate the point once again that puffers are not community fish.

 

[mattbeau]

I think that picture and statement should headline this section.....

it gets pulled out ALOT ( for me included)

 

[andywg]

Just another point to add that seems to be forgotten alot is that with brackish (and marine) tanks, you should never add salt directly to the tank.

You should add it to water to be put in after a water change and ensure all the salt is dissolved (using a powerhead or airstone can help.

 

[Kopix Nation]

My plants are thriving and everyone is fine so far. I bet your puffer was just demonic or something because Butters is fine. And I can always get a tank devider if worse comes to worse. And they seem fine with out all that salt in there. My gobies and Butters are eating like something possesed. Are you guys sure they are evil nasty beasts?

claire

hey I saw some spotted puffers are they nasty too? I resested the urge to buy the spotted puffer even though he was the same size as Butters.

 

[andywg]

My plants are thriving and everyone is fine so far. I bet your puffer was just demonic or something because Butters is fine. And I can always get a tank devider if worse comes to worse. And they seem fine with out all that salt in there. My gobies and Butters are eating like something possesed. Are you guys sure they are evil nasty beasts?

claire

hey I saw some spotted puffers are they nasty too? I resested the urge to buy the spotted puffer even though he was the same size as Butters.

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Why come on here looking for advice and then ignore it out of hand because it isn't what you want to hear. You say you work at a fish shop and know a thing or two, yet after asking for advice you ignore everything that is told to you.

You are right on one thing, the Minion's puffer was to an extent demonic, compared to other fish all puffers are. It's as simple as that. For some reason most people believe you when you say that a particular cichlid is vicious nad will terrorise a tank. Tell them the same about a puffer and they just ignore you. Even after photographic evidence.

A lot of puffers are ok until they reach sexual maturity at which point they become far less tolerant of tank mates. The spotted puffers you saw (which are most likely to be, but not definately, Green Spotted Puffers) are even more aggressive than figure 8s and move into full marine water once adult.

Your gobies and puffer may be alright at younger ages in freshwater but, as they mature, a lack of salt in the water will lead to a slow death through kidney failure and an increased succeptibility to disease and infection. If your plants are still growing and the puffer is more than 2" then the salinity is out too low.

Sorry to sound a bit blunt, but no-one ever seems to listen when it comes to brackish fish or puffers.

Andy

 

[Kopix Nation]

Ack!!!!! Ok ok puffers are nasty beasts that should be locked in a cage in a dongon. When do puffers become mature? Do I have time? He is 3" now. Oh dear what a mess I have gotten my self into.

claire

 

[andywg]

It's not that bad. There will probably be time to sort it out. SirM had a good suggestion earlier about moving the freshwater fish to the 60 gallon and turning the current tank brackish. The 20 gallon should be ok for a little while with those occupants alone (though I would conisder an external cannister filter as both the gobies and the puffer can be a bit messy with their eating).

There are a select few fish that have been succesfully kept with puffers and bumblebee gobies are one of them (being as hard as nails themselves...)

The best way to do this would be to prepare water to go into the tank a little in advance (maybe the day before) and add the salt to the water (buying a hydrometer, or even better a refractometer if you can afford it, will make this task easier). Each week when you water change add salt to raise the level slightly (around 0.001 SG per week would be good).

So on the first week add enough salt for the water going into the tank to be SG of 1.001
On the second 1.002
Third: 1.003
Fourth 1.004
Fifth and subsequent: 1.005 so that the SG of the tank will become 1.005.

By doing it this way you prevent shocking the gobies and the puffer and will also prevent the tank going into a minicylce by allowing the freshwater baacteria to die off at a similar rate to the development of brackish bacteria in your filter media.

I would also consider using live river shrimp (around 60p for 20-30 in the UK) as a live food for the puffer as any that aren't eaten will pick at uneaten food arounf the tank. Don't forget to feed your puffer snails to keep his beak trimmed.

Sorry to shock you, but if you act a little now, it can save a lot of trouble in the long run (a stitch in time, saves nine...). The most important thing is not to panic and bury your head in the sand, and look at it this way, if you read a bit in the brackish forum and chat to CFC you will soon be the brackish expert of your shop!

HIH

Andy

 

[Kopix Nation]

I am sorry for ignoring you guys at first it is just what am I suppose to do go out and buy the 125 gallon which I wish I could beleave me I wish I could have a 300g but I can't! I hope you guys will understand that when it come to saltwater i am as low as it gets intelligence wize. I just don't like salt water never have never will. And I am just getting into brakish water. Hopefully I maybe able one day to have archer fish my absolute favorite besides angelfish and oscars. I still need to study my butt off on other fish still. I feel like such a novice. Just like the kids who call every clown fish they see Nemo or every hippo/blue tang Dorrie or morise idol Gil. Uhhhgggg....... Oh and my puffer and gobies eat krill and plankton is that ok?


claire

 

[pica_nuttalli]

I am sorry for ignoring you guys at first it is just what am I suppose to do go out and buy the 125 gallon which I wish I could beleave me I wish I could have a 300g but I can't!

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just get the 125 as soon as you can manage to afford it. if it looks like it will be 6 months or more, then you'll want to rehome your angelfish and go on ahead with converting the 20g to brackish.

I hope you guys will understand that when it come to saltwater i am as low as it gets intelligence wize. I just don't like salt water never have never will. And I am just getting into brakish water. Hopefully I maybe able one day to have archer fish my absolute favorite besides angelfish and oscars.

brackish is much, much simpler than saltwater (or so i've been told ). you need to purchase a salinity monitor of some sort (typically people use hydrometers) and you need a big box of saltwater mix. read the pinned topics at the top of this forum and you'll pretty well know what you need to do for the conversion. andy's already given you a good place to start.

again, if its just 3 months or so that your puffer/gobies are in freshwater, it should pretty much be ok. but the sooner you can get him adjusted to a brackish tank, the sooner you'll be able to get him healthy. his fins should heal quite quickly and almost no strain of ich is salt-tolerant enough to survive in a brackish aquarium. is Butters in a quarantine tank right now or did you put him directly into your main aquarium?

Oh and my puffer and gobies eat krill and plankton is that ok?

if they are actually eating that, then it should pretty well be ok. i've never had any luck persuading my C. asellus that krill is yummy, but he's a purely freshwater puffer.

Welcome to the wonderful world of fish with teeth! Its a bit nerve-wrecking and frustrating to look at so much "empty space" in your tanks, but the puffer charisma makes it all worth it in the end.

 

[Pufferpunk]

I just don't like salt water never have never will. And I am just getting into brakish water.

Hmmm... Sounds very familiar... And after 26 years of FW & 6 years of BW, I've just started keeping my 1st reef tank!

Your 3" F8 is already an adult. It could be very happy living in a 10g alone. Does that make things any easier for you?

 

[Little Fish]

If your plants are still alive & thriving, then you aren't using nearly enough salt in your tank. You must use marine salt. F8s prefer a SG of 1.005. For me, this usually takes roughly around 1 cup of salt/5gal. As SirMinion said, the angels won't like that--neither will your plants. Work hard on getting that 125g soon, so everyone can get upgraded & the puffer can live happily in a BW environment. Soon enough, your pretty angels will be finless...

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I know this question might be off topic in this thread but I'm puzzled by the amount of salt ratio you mentioned. First of all, I'm a newbie in brackish and everything I know is learned from forums like this one and information on the web. So, I'm not questioning your knowledge. I just want to know if I did something wrong. I have a 29G cycled freshwater tank with 3 F8s which I started to turn brackish last night. The tank is less than half full of water because I have some red mangroves that didn't clear the water line yet. I drained 5G out and in a 5G bucket I put in about 1/4 cup of salt mix. The brand is Crystal Sea and the cup I used came with the bucket. The label said 1 cup of salt and 4G of water makes SG 1.023. After running my powerhead for an hour or so in the bucket, I tested with a refractometer and it reads SG 1.004. I filled the tank and tested the water and it reads 1.002. I'm pretty sure the refractometer is correct because I check the calibration with distilled water before I started. There seems to be a 4 times difference between the amount of salt we used to raise the salinity to similar levels. What gives? Is specific gravity a non-linear measurement so I need 4 times the salt to raise it from 1.004 to 1.005? Does different brands of salt mix contain different amount of salt? I'm concerned because I want to raise the salt level slowly with each weekly water change so not to shock the fishes or kill off all bacteria.