Is my cycle going okay?

[FishHobby99]

Dr. Tim‘s NH3 & API Conditioner came in same shipmen. Have test kits.
Toying with idea of a cycling experiment. No fish. Tests would be run on side by side tanks, one starter & one with the ammonia. Could I do this without a filter & air pump?

 

[Essjay]

Initially the bacteria grow in a filter but they will grow elsewhere in a tank. You could use a sponge filter powered by an air pump in each tank. Using identical sponge filters and the same air pump, either one with two outlets or a single outlet with an airline splitter, would mean the tanks would be running under identical circumstances.


If you were to do this experiment, the only way to know if the API starter has worked is to add ammonia - either from a bottle or from fish.
The best way would be to set up two tanks, add ammonia to both and the starter to one of them. Then follow the fishless cycling method on here. If the starter does work, the cycle in that tank would reach the end point a lot faster.

 

[FishHobby99]

Initially the bacteria grow in a filter but they will grow elsewhere in a tank. You could use a sponge filter powered by an air pump in each tank. Using identical sponge filters and the same air pump, either one with two outlets or a single outlet with an airline splitter, would mean the tanks would be running under identical circumstances.


If you were to do this experiment, the only way to know if the API starter has worked is to add ammonia - either from a bottle or from fish.
The best way would be to set up two tanks, add ammonia to both and the starter to one of them. Then follow the fishless cycling method on here. If the starter does work, the cycle in that tank would reach the end point a lot faster.

Yes, I did buy Dr Tim’s ammonia from amazom. However, a few articles led me to believe it’s common household ammonia. None in this house though because I hate the odor. Wondering if I paid $8 or whatever ever for something I could have bought at Walmart for a few bucks.

Also read, most interestingly, some use a combo of ammonia & a bacterial starter vs one or the other alone. Seems to reduce cycling time from ~6 weeks (no starter, NH3 only) to 2-3.

I am becoming inclined to cycle without the starter when I get my big tank. Will be a huge community tank with fancy fish. Some time down the road. Now I have 7 guppies, 5 goldfish, 3 Cory Cats, 1 bristlenose pleco, a betta & a few minnows in 4 tanks, 2 cold water & two heated. Two 10 G, a 40 G and a 5.

i have a lot to learn & thank you kindly for your help.

 

[Essjay]

Dr Tim's ammonia is ammonium chloride which works just as well for cycling. The main difference is that you can't use the calculator on here to work out how much to use.
The bottle should say to use 4 drops per gallon, but Dr Tim's website says that gives an ammonia level of 2 ppm. The method on here uses 3 ppm, so that dose rate needs to be adjusted. And it's per gallon of actual water not the volume the tank manufacturer says.

 

[FishHobby99]

Dr Tim's ammonia is ammonium chloride which works just as well for cycling. The main difference is that you can't use the calculator on here to work out how much to use.
The bottle should say to use 4 drops per gallon, but Dr Tim's website says that gives an ammonia level of 2 ppm. The method on here uses 3 ppm, so that dose rate needs to be adjusted. And it's per gallon of actual water not the volume the tank manufacturer says.

Thanks! Good to know.

 

[FishHobby99]

Thanks! Good to know.

Just looked at the ammonia at Walmart. $1.16 a qt. It’s Ammonia Hydroxide, NH4OH. Not NH4Cl like Tim’s as you said. I’ll stick with Tim.

 

[Essjay]

Ammonium hydroxide is what ammonia turns into when it dissolves in water.
NH3 + H2O -> NH4OH

NH4OH dissociates into its ions NH4+ and OH-. Ammonium chloride dissolved in water also dissociates into its ions, NH4+ and Cl-.


A tiny bit of ammonium is constantly changing into ammonia and back to ammonium, whether it comes from ammonium hydroxide or ammonium chloride.
Most of the 'ammonia' in water is actually ammonium, NH4+. Our test kits measure 'total ammonia' - 'free' ammonia and ammonium combined. At pH 7.0 and 25 deg C, water with a test reading of 1.0 ppm ammonia actually contains 0.0058 ppm 'free' ammonia. That 0.0058 ppm gets even smaller as pH drops but it gets bigger as pH goes up.




The main risk with ammonium hydroxide is that it's used as a cleaning product and it often has detergent added. If it does, it can't be used for cycling.

 

[FishHobby99]

Tis so. I took many a chemistry class on my way to a PhD in biology. Forgot 99.99%.

 

[Essjay]

My degree is in chemistry but it was a long time ago and I've also forgotten a lot of what I used to know.

 

[Seed_Lord]

Hey, if I'm gonna be patient while I fishless cycle, I'm going to be impatient waiting to fully stock the tank...I want my fishes, lol

Waiting for a filter to cycle for 6 weeks or so is literally the most frustrating thing I've ever done in my life.

 

[FishHobby99]

ikr?

 

[Slaphppy7]

Waiting for a filter to cycle for 6 weeks or so is literally the most frustrating thing I've ever done in my life.

I find it hard to understand sometimes these fishless cycles that drag on for so long...mine have always taken 3 weeks, tops (?)

 

[Essjay]

Maybe your water has the optimum parameters for bacteria growth

 

[Slaphppy7]

Maybe your water has the optimum parameters for bacteria growth

Could be....speaking of which, they just flushed the water lines in my town (they do it once a year), and the chlorine (chloramine) smell from the tap is pretty potent...won't be drinking or cooking with that water for some days

 

[FishHobby99]

I am drafting a letter to API re their “Allows instant addition of fish” claim on the Quick Start bottle. I want their laboratory research data. I will add my PhD in biology from UCSD with the hopes they will be more accommodating, but I don’t have Great Expectations. Appears they are part of a conglomerate that makes every candy bar, dog food, cat food etc that I’ve ever heard of. They had an interesting Anti-Slavery Policy at the Website. Appears to address labor conditions in third world countries.