Is It True?..

[dzsigmond217]

I just read on another post that someones Ph was too low and it messed up his/her cycle? I just got a new Ph liquid test kit and tested my tank. The Ph came out at 6 which is the lowest the kit would go..so it might even be lower. Could this be the reason why my nitrite levels don't seem to be rising??

Tomorrow should I get a ph rising product??

 

[Amunet]

This happened in our 28 gallon tank.
We tryed to cycle the tank twice with Bio-Spira and both times it didn't take. I didn't know what the heck was wrong.
One day readings would be fine, and then BAM, ammonia would go back up while nothing else moved.
Then someone (can't remember who) told me about the pH thing. I tested the pH and it was at 6 (lowest reading the test showed).
So... I decided to use baking soda to raise the pH, and as soon as I did, the cycling process occurred with no problems at all.

 

[backtotropical]

Hi Dzsigmond,

Yes, its true. Once the pH gets as low as around 6, it will inhibit the growth of the bacteria.

Have you tested the pH of your tap water? If your tap water is the same, you will need to raise the pH of the water. If the pH of the tap water is higher, there must be something in your tank which is acidifying the water and it should be removed.

If you do need to raise the pH, avoid using powders because although they do work, they need to be added fairly frequently and can cause the pH to swing around the place if you forget or add the wrong amount. It's far better to use something like coral sand as a substrate or calcium leaching rocks as decor (like tufarock or limestone) which will constantly buffer the pH without having additives to the water on every water change. It makes for a much more stable environment which your fish will appreciate.

First thing though, is to test the tap water as stated above.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

BTT

 

[andywg]

It is believed that the ammonia and nitrite oxidising bacteria we desire do not do well below a pH of 6. It is hypothesised that below this level a different sort of bacteria will develop to handle ammonia and nitrite, but it is slower to develop. Obviously if you do manage to cycle a low pH tank, you then have the issue of a new cycle should the pH later on be buffered upwards.

 

[dzsigmond217]

So I tested my tap water and the Ph was between 6.8 and 7.0. I then tested all 3 of my tanks and got varied readings...

29 gallon tank: Ph 6.0.
It is filled with silk plants , a large & small piece of driftwood, a resin rock and a bubble wand.
oh yeah..and gravel

7 gallon : Ph 6.0
silk & plastic plants and a small ceramic planting pot plus gravel

7 gallon tank: Ph around 7.0
silk& plastic plants, 1 small ceramic planting pot and a piece of rock..Don't know what its called but heres a pic..

I know the rock in the 3rd tank might increase Ph..or so I was told. But my tap water was also around 7.0..so what could it be in the first 2 tanks which is acidifying the tanks/lowering the Ph. The 29 gallon was originally cycled and Ph was fine. I haven't added any more decorations since then so what could it be?!?!

Also, as a note, I had tried to transfer media fron my 29 gallon to the 2nd tank listed (7 gallon) and managed to somehow kill all my bacteria. So both these tanks are cycling now. These are also both the tanks with the low Ph reading.. Could this have something to do with it???

Any input is much appreciated!
Thanks again.. Dianne

 

[P&J]

Is this a fishless cycle or a fish-in cycle? (My apologies if you already gave that info.)

I don't know if it was one of my posts that you read, but I have had major issues with ph during my fishless cycle. If you are also cycling fishlessly, it might not be something in your tank causing the problem but rather the cycle itself. The way it was explained to me is that during a fishless cycle, we are adding ridiculously more ammonia in one shot than a tank full of fish ever would. This apparently throws the water chemistry all out of whack (remember, ammonia is a base, which will initially raise the ph). Perhaps someone can explain it better, but it might just be that the so-called buffering capabilities of your water are all sorts of messed up during the cycle.

If you are cycling with fish, though, then disregard my post
(Edit: upon further review, I see a fish in the pic of your tank with the ph of 7, and no mention of fish in the others, just that they are "cycling." I believe this would help to confirm my post, as it seems that the stable tank is having no ph issue while the cycling ones do--pointing to the possibility of the massive amounts of ammonia rather than something in the tank messing with your ph.)

I have been overcoming this problem with water changes... I was essentially done cycling and just "maintaining" the bacteria, but I was changing 60% of the water every 2 or 3 days when the ph would bottom out.

-P

 

[rdd1952]

The pH in a cycling tank will generally drop. You can get it back up with water changes. On a different note, I'm not certain what the rock is but I would definitely remove it from the betta's tank. The betta will probably swim around and through it and will rip it's fins to shreds on such a rough rock. You don't want anything jagged in a betta's tank.

 

[dzsigmond217]

Both the 29 & 7 gallon tanks that are having pH problems have fish in them. The 29 gallon was cycled and going smoothly (with fish in it) when I tried to transfer media to the 7 gallon which also has fish in it. At the point of transfer I must have killed the bacteria in the sponge so the transfer didn't work. Now both tanks are going through cycle again. Both tanks have between 1ppm to 3ppm ammonia daily for the past 2plus weeks. Nitrite tests continually say 0 as well as nitrate. For the past 2 days I've checked pH, the tests in both tanks come up 6..which is the lowest it can go (on test). My tap water is a Ph of around 6.8-7.

Since I've been doing water changes at least once a day I don't understand why the Ph would go down overnight from 7 to 6 or less. I don't think I have anything in either tank which would be the cause. Just silk plants and some driftwood. As stated earlier, the 29 gallon was cycled with the following readings:ammonia 0;nitrite 0; nitrate 20; pH 7 (until I accidentally killed bacteria).

Today I purchased a pH increase product by API. I checked the levels in the 29 gallon: ammonia 2ppm; nitrite 0; nitrate 0; pH 6 (or less).

All apologies for repeating myself..I'm just very frustrated because I cant figure out whats going on.
My 3rd tank (with betta) has a pH of 7 and I use the same tap water. So I just can't figure out why the pH in the other tanks differ.

Also, as a note: The rock in the betta tank was scrubbed down with a heavy duty brush and isn't as rough as it looks. The betta has been in the tank with the rock for the last two months and has not ripped fins at all!

If anyone has a clue whats going on with my tanks..PLEASE HEEELP!
Thanks again!
Dianne

 

[dzsigmond217]

Little update:
Tank pH before water change = 6.0(or less)
I just did a 75% water change using tap water which has 7.0 pH
Checked pH after water change = already down to 6.4

added pH increase will check pH in an hour

 

[backtotropical]

If you do need to raise the pH, avoid using powders because although they do work, they need to be added fairly frequently and can cause the pH to swing around the place if you forget or add the wrong amount. It's far better to use something like coral sand as a substrate or calcium leaching rocks as decor (like tufarock or limestone) which will constantly buffer the pH without having additives to the water on every water change. It makes for a much more stable environment which your fish will appreciate.

Don't say i didn't warn you.....................

 

[rdd1952]

It's quite possible that your tap ph is only showing a 7.0 reading because the gases haven't had time to escape. Municipal water companies sometimes inject gases into the water to protect the pipes. Once it comes from the faucet, it gases out and the ph will change. Try running some water in a cup or glass and letting it stand for an hour and then testing it.

And I agree with BTT on the pH adjusting chemicals. They cause way more problems than they solve, especially once the fish are in the tank.

 

[backtotropical]

Hi DZS,

I'm in agreement with RDD1952 about the tap water. This is definitely a test worth doing.

I can't see any other reason why the pH would fall so drastically. Are you injecting CO2? Driftwood can cause a drop in pH, but it is usually quite gradual and a reasonably small drop unless the water is very soft.

I think, regardless of the cause of the pH drop, it needs to be addressed. It may just be that you have really soft water which needs hardening slightly so it can hold a stable pH. I would recommend ditching your pH adjuster and investing in a small bag of coral gravel. Take a small handful of the gravel and mix it through your existing gravel. Wait a couple of days and then test for pH. Repeat as necessary until you achieve the desired effect. This is a one-off exercise (almost) and does not need repeated every water change, as your pH adjusting product will.

The coral gravel will become exhausted eventually, but not for several years. At this point, you can just add some more.

I would usually recommend that you should find the cause first, then treat it, but in this case, with fish already in the tanks and ammonia / nitrite rising, you need to get your cycle going asap. It is also very important to keep the pH stable with fish in the tanks, so you should act quickly to resolve this. Treat now with coral gravel and endeavour to find the cause later.

Continue your water changes to deal with your ammonia / nitrite issues and you should come out the other side relatively unharmed.

Good luck. Keep us updated.

Cheers

BTT

 

[dzsigmond217]

So this is the current situation..My LFS told me it could be my driftwood that was creating the pH level to drop because it is a massive piece. So I took out the wood, put in a smaller piece & bought a chunk of lava rock to help increase the pH (they didn't have limestone or any type of coral rock). I did a 75% water change and checked pH again in the tank. The tap right from the faucet was around 6.8. pH in tank after 75% change - 6 or less. It seems the pH drops to 6 or less the minute it gets in the tank! I checked pH in tap water after it sat for an hour and it was still around 6.8. My LFS said it would take around 48 hours for the piece of rock to change pH. Now what I don't understand is if it was the driftwood that was decreasing the pH why is the pH 6 or less in the 7 gallon which has no wood A friend gave me a piece of coral so I put that in my 7 gallon to try to increase the pH in that tank. I am going to assume that my water is soft and not able to keep the pH stable for now. I will check other LFS for coral gravel to help and will not use the pH increase anymore (as it doesn't seem to do anything anyway!) Thanks for all the help and suggestions. It means a lot to me. I haven't lost any fish yet, thank God. What exactly does injecting CO2 mean? I have a bubble wand to increase oxygen and thats all.

For right now I will wait and see if the lava rock increases the pH in the 29 gallon and the piece of coral in the seven gallon . This is going to be the longest 2 days of my life!

I'm also going to do another test on my tap. I just filled a cup with tap and I will test it in an hour..just to make sure. Let me know if I'm doing anything wrong! Thanks again!
Dianne

 

[andywg]

If you do need to raise the pH, avoid using powders because although they do work, they need to be added fairly frequently and can cause the pH to swing around the place if you forget or add the wrong amount. It's far better to use something like coral sand as a substrate or calcium leaching rocks as decor (like tufarock or limestone) which will constantly buffer the pH without having additives to the water on every water change. It makes for a much more stable environment which your fish will appreciate.

Don't say i didn't warn you.....................

If that's the case, why do so many reefers use powder additives when keeping life far more sensitive to swings than FW fish?

So long as you maintain any dosing regime you are fine, and you have more control over it than just dropping something that will dissolve calcium carbonate into the water at an unknown rate.

 

[backtotropical]

If that's the case, why do so many reefers use powder additives when keeping life far more sensitive to swings than FW fish?

And why do most reefers use a calcium leaching substrate and rock too? Using the powder in a reef is less risky as you will know Andy, as the calcium leaching substrate and rock are already helping to harden the water and avoid pH swings. Should you forget to add the powder, theres less chance of a pH disaster as there are already buffers in place. In a situation where no other buffers are in place, it is much more reliable to use coral gravel than powder buffer, in case something should go wrong.

So long as you maintain any dosing regime you are fine, and you have more control over it than just dropping something that will dissolve calcium carbonate into the water at an unknown rate.

Again, i assume you are saying that most reefers don't use coral or argonite sand, or live rock, as this would "dissolve calcium carbonate into the water at an unknown rate"? I assume also that the powder buffers you mention have variable instructions on them to allow for if there are other calcium carbonate buffers in the tank, as otherwise surely using the buffers is just dumping powder in to increase hardness and pH to an unknown level?

As i have stated above, i am recommending that in the absence of any other buffers, a buffering substrate will provide a more stable environment for the fish than having to add powders frequently, especially in the event that the powder runs out etc etc. This situation wouldn't occur with the use of a buffering substrate. I agree that when there are already other buffers in place (as in a reef tank), the powders are less likely to have a negative effect, but at the same time, why bother to use them in that situation?

Cheers

BTT