Is it ok to go fishing...

[RandomWiktor]

Its hardly picking holes... carnivores and omnivores are completely different things; just because an animal eats some meat doesn't make it a carnivore by default. And no, they are not carnivores, so you shouldn't say it unless you know the difference, which you clearly do not if you are saying "what's the difference?" There are huge physiological differences between omnivores and carnviores; eyes on the front of the head doesn't mean jack-all when it isn't paired with proper teeth, claws, senses, behavior, and internal structure. But, how about we not debate this? I didn't reply to argue with you, I replied to correct a common misconception. So, I'm not replying after this post, so I hope you do not, either.

 

[CFC]

If this turns into a debate about the ethics of eating/not eating meat then i will close it. Stick to the original question please

 

[Boxcar Muzzdogg]

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[Ethos]

I like fishing and releasing. If the fish is big enough, I'll keep it and eat it. Otherwise, I'll release. Another rule I go by is if we dont get 3 good ones, we dont falay any. Thats when we release,

 

[Dorkhedeos]

i dont think its all that bad, as long as you dont keep it out of water for too long. i go bass fishing and surf fishing. catch striper and perch at the beach. its all good

And, stocking, parsitism, and disease aside... well lets just say I haven't met too many macho all-american fishermen who would dare use a barbless hook or let a fish go (well, unless they caught something small and crappy); they seem to feel the need to "kill 'em and grill 'em," or at least have them mounted. Most of the hooks I've seen for sale out here are barbed, sometimes VERY barbed, unless it is a mom and kids fishing. In fact, I sometimes feed sunnies at my grandpa's cabin (on a lake), and it is very common to see them with missing eyes, torn lips, and punctures in thier faces from being hooked with a barbed hook and thrown back.
And, when you look into ocean fishing, it gets even worse. Not only is impaling smaller fish and eels on a hook to catch larger fish common practice, but many of the animals break the line and escape with a pretty brutal hook in thier mouth, only to die later of infection or starvation from the injury. It really is unpleasant stuff; I used to go with my grandfather.

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all american? im 100% chinese and i still wont use a barbless hook. why would i want to lose my meal? only time i throw them back is when they are too small to keep, this doesnt mean i throw it back cause its "small and crappy" i just dont want to get in trouble. i have homemade lures, because i dont like using bait. ive lost many fish, but this doesnt mean they are going to die from infection or starvation. fish arent like humans, if they get hurt, they arent going to just stop eating just because it hurts to eat, and they can survive weeks without food. ive never seen a fish without an eye, except for in aquariums

 

[RandomWiktor]

I was talking about americans because I was noting differences between fishing in England and in the US, as a poster said that the lake he fishes at is maintained carefully and people do mostly catch/release with unbarbed hooks.
And animals with injuries that prevent them from eating because of a severe mouth injury most certainly do starve. A big, rusty hook stuck in a cat fish's throat will certainly hinder its ability to eat, swallow, etc, and it is very possible and common for fish to get infections in wounds. So I think that it is dellusional to think that fish that swallow hooks or are badly injured from a severe wound do not sometimes starve or succumb to infection. I mean, if you are going to fish, that's fine. But at least own up to the fact that there are consequences for the animals involved; saying a fish who swallows the line and gets away with a belly full of hook will be perfectly fine is like a bowhunter saying the deer that got away after being shot in the hip will be just fine. (the "you" I keep refering to is the universal "you," not you in particular)
And as for having never seen fish with missing eyes or injuries of the like... just because you personally have not seen them doesn't mean they aren't out there. I wouldn't make up a lie about wounded fish to make a point; heck, I know that one of the eyeless ones out there was probably my fault. I hooked a sunny through the eye with a barbed hook as a kid, and his eye got completely destroyed removing it.


BTW, if you live in the US, I don't care what country you are from, I consider you American So sorry if that came off as derogatory or whatever.

 

[Fishist]

There are plenty of catch and release "sport" fisherman in the US... just as there are fishermen in England who cook their Saturday morning catch for dinner.

Oh, and I live in the US and love it here... but I'm not American!

 

[Synirr]

And animals with injuries that prevent them from eating because of a severe mouth injury most certainly do starve. A big, rusty hook stuck in a cat fish's throat will certainly hinder its ability to eat, swallow, etc, and it is very possible and common for fish to get infections in wounds.

Fish are not cats... or mammals, for that matter. There are huge differences in the biology of warm-blooded and cold-blooded creatures, and while it's true that fish do sometimes succumb to infection of a wound, they almost never starve because it "hurts to eat" or something similar. I don't know whether or not they feel pain, but I'm confident they don't feel it the same way we mammals do and will eat regardless of what kind of horrible injury they have to their lip. I had an angelfish a while back who had an incurable case of lip rot and still ate with as much enthusiasm as ever even as his entire top lip rotted away.

And as for having never seen fish with missing eyes or injuries of the like... just because you personally have not seen them doesn't mean they aren't out there.

God knows that's true. As a kid I seemed to have a knack for catching fish in very strange ways... through the eye, through the gill... I even caught one by the tail once, but don't ask me how!

 

[Tolak]

I see nothing wrong with fishing, I catch & release. I could care less if I catch anything or not, half the time the fish get the bait off the hook on me, big deal.

I go fishing because it gives me a reason to get away from the city, sit on my @ss, & do nothing while I look like I am doing something.

I have no problem with eating fish, beef, or any other meat as far as that goes. Goat ribs are as far as a couple friends & I have taken our culinary adventures so far, it was mentioned that there were no stray dogs in the neighborhood where we got them.

In high school I worked in the back room of a local fish house for a while. Ankle deep in scales & intestines, lovely job. It was a real lesson in fish anatomy.

Tolak

 

[RandomWiktor]

Eh. We have differing opinions on how fish feel pain then. I am in the animal medical field, and there really isn't much evidence suggesting that fish feel pain very differently from other animals; they have basically the same nervous system. However, being wild animals, they will often not show signs of pain. You can see wild animals running around on broken limbs with gunshot wounds, and they'll still try to look as though they are well, eat food, etc. until they finally fall ill with infection, stress, or are killed by predation. So, yes, fish will eat with mouth injuries, even if they are painful, but what I was getting at was injuries that damage the mechanisms of eating. No one seems to get that. I used the example of a fishook in a catfish's throat - not a cat - as it could certainly hinder the ability to swallow. I am sure that if the fish had its jaw damaged - as I once had a goldfish with a damaged jaw who starved to death - by hooking, it too would starve. I'm not saying they wouldn't eat due to pain, though it is entirely possible if the pain is bad enough. I am saying that the hook itself can cause injuries that may result in infection, or not being able to eat. I really do not understand why anyone who has had a sick or injured fish would find that so unbelieveable
Pain is biologically important. Even worms have a basic nervous system. Without pain, animals would not move away from harmful stimuli, would re-injure thier wounds and prevent recovery, and would essentially cause enough harm to die. It counters logic to suggest that fish do not feel pain just because they can't scream like a dog or child.

And again... I'm not saying fishing is wrong or that you shouldn't do it. What I am saying is that if you are going to fish, you should at least admit that it does cause pain and suffering. I don't think that being honest is too much to ask, no?

 

[annka5]

Ok, personally I would go fishing and have in the past. I wouldn't throw them back in though, I'd eat them. And I see no moral problem with that, I really don't.
I agree that it must cause some level of pain. I do also think that fish perceive pain differently -in that they cannot feel dread, or shame, or that its unfair, or whatever -they don't have the emotional response to it that human beings do. I cut the tip of my thumb off with a stanley knife, and it did hurt, but the pain wasn't that bad until I realised I had a bit of thumb missing, about 4 minutes later. I still felt pain, just not in the same way.
What I do have a problem with is keeping animals -either farmed livestock (e.g. battery-farmed chickens) or some pet fish - in conditions which are disgusting, and give them a nasty, short, painful life.
I think it is far better (morally) to kill and eat an animal that has had a good life and a quick death than pop down to your nearest supermarket and buy pre-packaged battery chicken flesh because "it doesn't have face".

 

[RandomWiktor]

Excellent point, annka5; at least wild fish did have some sort of quality of life prior to being killed.

 

[Naughtygirlrlw]

I have been a vegetarian for 10 years and I personally don't or wouldn't fish but I would never judge someone because they did, even if I don't like it.
Random~I think you have made some awesome points...Kudos to you!!!

 

[Synirr]

Eh. We have differing opinions on how fish feel pain then. I am in the animal medical field, and there really isn't much evidence suggesting that fish feel pain very differently from other animals; they have basically the same nervous system.

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Until very recently it has been popular opinion in the field of science that fish don't feel pain at all. It was believed that, much like "lower" creatures such as worms and insects, their reactions to stimuli were simply reflex... similar nervous systems or not, you need more than just nerves to feel pain, you need a neocortex developed to perceive it. While I do believe that at least some species of fish are capable of feeling pain, I absolutely do not think they feel it the same way we mammals do simply because our brain anatomy and functions are so different. Fish have some of the simplest types of brains of any vertebrate animal with very under-developed cerebral hemispheres, which is the basis for the scientific opinion that they can not feel pain.

Do Fish Fell Pain? - Evidence for and against

First conclusive evidence of pain perception in fish is said to have been found by UK scientists

 

[GuppyDude]

of course its ok to fish and own tropical fish, i do it alot, infact i slaughter carp by the hundreds every other weekend, theres just way to many of em