is cycling gonna kill my prize fish?

[NuSkool]

My other angel fish died this morning. Ahh well, it's my own fault really. No-one to blame except myself.
But this being a learning experience, and given its my first tank and I've never owned fish before, I guess I'll learn from my mistakes, and get on with it. And seeing as two fish died, gives me a chance to go to the LFS and get some more! Oh! Aren't I terrible?!?! Anyways, thanks again for your help everyone, I couldn't have come this far without you, and although I still have much to learn, I have a bit of knowledge up my sleeve that most people don't. Thank you!!!!
NuSKooL

 

[cichlid_freak]

Here's the thing. Mr. V, your right that doing a water change will only remove wastes and ammonia/nitrIte/nitrAtes etc. It will not remove the beneficial bacteria.

But, it WILL remove the food that bacteria feeds on to reproduce and create sufficient numbers to handle the wastes and ammonia and nitrIte that the occupents of the tank produce.

The solution is to do small water changes say 10-20% maximum. This removes some of these toxins reducing the stress on the fish without starving the bacteria. Ideally, you wouldn't use sensative fish like knife fish and angels to cycle the tank, but it's a little late.

 

[Fishsmurf]

NuSkool,

Whilst you have the chance why not have a look at fishless cycling....

Fishless Cycle

A good (if not a bit heavy) article that then leads onto simple articles and instructions on how to fishless cycle.....

Might be worth a go.....

 

[mrV]

But, it WILL remove the food that bacteria feeds on to reproduce and create sufficient numbers to handle the wastes and ammonia and nitrIte that the occupents of the tank produce.

No, it doesn't... There is still alot of e.g. fish pee in water. I have had prob with one of my tank. I set it up using Tetra Bactozym, because I wanted to know, do they really works.. And they don't Well, everybody knows that, but I had to try it still... So if someone asks do they work, I can say "They don't."

So, I cycled it couple weeks without fishes, adding bactozym everyday... Nitrite peaks came and went, so I put 4 Crossocheilus siamensis and couple Ancistrus sp. cf. temminckii into the tank. What happened next? There were nitrite again next day, so what to do? I changed water 50% everyday (or did I changed 30% 2 times/day, hmm... Don't remember) and after 3 days, there wasn't nitrite more and fishes didn't die. Nitrite level was 0,3 mg/l.

Good bacteria increase very slowly and best way is to do fishless cycling always.

 

[NuSkool]

Okay, fishless cycling seems like a really good idea, but having said that, I already have fish in the tank. I've lost my two prize angels, but I still have two smaller angels that have been in the tank much longer and have (thus far) survived the chemical changes in the water, and so have the knife fish, glow light neons, powder blue gourami, mollie, cory's, platy's and harlequins. What is the best direction to go from here?

 

[johnq]

those black knife fish will get so big you wont be able to enjoy them I suggest getting fish that dont grow so big.

 

[magsamermaid]

Do you have a friend someone you trust who keeps fish if you do you can get some water from them and put it in your tank that will speed up your filter. Also regarding your Angel fish they are chiclids and will attack other fish. I had a lovely tank and a rougue trader sold me an Angel even though i asked and asked whether it was safe because everything i had read said not to. It attacked so many fish infected my tank and i lost the lot so be very carefull which fish you put with your angels because they arnt no angels good luck

 

[Jamnog]

maybee you could get some cycled water from somewhere the lfs might supply you with some or perhaps you could get some fro ma large pond do a 50% water change with the cycled water and then leave it for a few weeks while monitoring. tho this is just an emergency measure.

 

[NuSkool]

I didn't mention I have a smaller tank thats been up and running for nearly a month now, so I did a 30% water change in that too, that nitrite levels were perfect in that tank, but theres a drawf gourami in there that has Furunculosis, so I gave that tank some medication (it also has 4 glow light harlequins and 4 red tailed tetras)

The dwarf gourami is really really really sick! I read somewhere that you use Fungus Eliminator for "furunculosis" and the guy at the lfs gave me triple sulfur. I used it at first like the directions gave for a normal case, but now its escalated so far, that I'm using the recommended amount for a severe infestation. The gourami had a pimple like thing just below the top fin, about midway along its body. Then it turned into a little hole, and now its HUGE!!!!!! It's like 5mm wide and its kinda bulging at the sides. The flesh is a pale colour, but it looks absolutely awful! Its still picking on the red-tail tetras but it spends alot of time hanging out under the shelter of the plants. The medication just aint working, what do I do??
The nitrate levels are fine, and so is the ph and I do water 20% water change every week. Its only a 16 cubic litre tank, with 4 little red-tail tetras and the gourami and the glow light harlequins all died last week.
I don't want it to be in pain, but I dont want to lose it either. Aww maan...waddya do??
NuSkool

 

[Jamnog]

i dont know if there is a type of fish antiseptic but generally i found this site here might help you decidei hope some of the others will have something to add the thing that seems so unfair that you care so much for your fish and this is hapening to you but dont give up.

 

[NuSkool]

Thanks for the link Jamnog, I'll have to give it a salt bath or ten! And thanks for your support as well, I guess I shouldn't get heartbroken so easily... it'll all work out. The 2ft tank is looking brilliant, and my lil finned friends are looking as perky as they ever have, the plants are growing like crazy and all my levels have finally stabilised. Maybe I should just kiss my little dwarf gourami goodbye and think of it as a learning experience. We'll see how the salt baths go, I'll give it a week or two before I make any rash decisions.
Nuskool

 

[Jamnog]

thats the spirit nuskool its more important that you enjoy keeping your fish. of course we make mistakes but you know more from having done the right things about those mistakes i make mistakes everyone here has ... except perhaps mrv anyways hope your fish live long and quality lives now they have lovely stable water to swim around in.

 

[LesGerber]

Ok I am going to say my piece here and I am ready for all to jump on me........I have followed MR V and his posts through 3 differnent forums. While He and I havent always seen eye to eye I do respect his opinion. I do not know if he is a scientist by trade or if its a hobby for him but the man has a real firm grasp on the science of tank water. I was doing research recently on the idea of running a UV sterilizer in my tank. The idea was to kill off any and all bacteria in the water so to not have illnesses. What I found, and I ran the concept by another Mod here, is that the ammonia and nitrite are in the water while the nitrate establish colonies in filters and gravel. If you remove the ammonia and nitrites then there was going to be no food for the nitrate.
So what I am saying is that I am following what Mr V says, I wouldnt agree totally with a 75 percent change of the water, but water changes are in order.
IMHO if there is ever any question to water conditions and MrV speaks up he should be listened to. He is one the most knowledgeble people in the hobby and I respect his opinions

Les