is cycling gonna kill my prize fish?

[NuSkool]

Okay, so I started researching aquariums after i got the tank... and the fish.
Now I have two platinum angel fish that are sitting at the bottom of the tank next to the filter with their mouths pointing upwards, gasping for air, while my nitrite levels are at uncharted highs. They're not eating much, and they look totally miserable. Will I lose them, due to my total ignorance? (You can tell me straight, I'm ready for the worst) Are angels hardy fish? And what about my two black knife fish, they appear to be acting normal, but should I expect a rapid decline in them too?
It's a 20g tank with lots of plants, will the plants help them get through the nitrite stage? How long do the nitrites stay up so high? They've been miserable 3 days now, I keep hoping the worst is over, but I just don't know.
I'm gonna be heartbroken aren't I?

 

[mrV]

Change alot of water immediately! Check nitrite level after that, if it's too high, change water again... Don't feed fishes either.

Get rid of the knife fishes, they grows too big and are actually predators - if you have small tetras in same tank, it wouldn't be miracle if you find half tetras...

Angels should be also kept in large aquariums, they fins are great - prob. 40cm high if they have enough room. Better to keep them in tank that is at least 45-50cm high.

But... Change water, it's the only way to keep nitrite level down.

 

[NuSkool]

Well if it wasn't 10pm, I'd do it now, but those poor little fish are just gonna have to wait til tomorrow, I've just filled some buckets.
Get rid of the knife fish?? Ouch! They're just under 2 inches long now, how long will they take to grow out of my tank size? The angels are about 1 1/2 inches long, if that, how long will they take? Hopefully, I'll be able to keep them in this tank for 6 months, then I'll think about upscaling (I already want to... but budgets, ya know).
But anyway, I'll change 50% of the water first thing in the morning, hopefully they'll survive the evening, and if I'm feeling really guilty, I may do it tonight, I just don't know about putting tap water straight in the tank with start right a and b, and cycle. Isn't it better to let the water stand instead?

 

[mrV]

It's improtant to change water as soos as possible and a lot. It's only way to keep them alive. You should probably change water at night too. If you water is bad, you should use some hemicals to make it better.

About knife fish: http/ichtyonb1.mnhn.fr/Summary/SpeciesSu...ry.cfm?id=12220 Didn't you realize it's over 50cm long?

 

[NuSkool]

yeah, but if they take 10 years to get that big, that's okay... if they take 6 months to get that big, then that's a different story (IF they survive the cycling anyway)

 

[semper fi]

you have to watch out how much of a water change that you do so as not to remove what you have already established in the tank. would say do 10% water changes every other day. do not vaccuum the gravel too deep, just skim the surface to get the waste and excess food from it. keep an eye on your toxin levels also.

semper fi

 

[mrV]

... as not to remove what you have already established in the tank

Like what? In water there is only bad bacteria, fishs pee, harmful chemical compounds etc...

 

[reg2k2]

Hafta disagree w/ ya, Mr.V. Check Baensch, p.37...this surprised me, as my bio-filter has never been disrupted, even through very large water changes (I do use a ugf)---can't say for sure at the start, tho...

Although most bacteria is at home in the gravel, filter, etc....apparently some is in the water as well....and perhaps is more important in a new tank, which is trying to establish the colony?

 

[mrV]

I don't own the serie, only PhotoIndex.

 

[Jamnog]

imho the best way to keep water from going out of controll is prolly to introduce the fish slowly and keep things nice and ballanced good powerfull filter effectively treats and changes the water the plants and animals can change the leval of nitrates the ph you shouldnt change i dont thing 50% water changes are the way to go its one of those things that would unessasarily stress and kill your fish constantly changeing their environment would make you nervouse. i would like to point out that this is only my opinion and not based on scientific proof only that without changeing the water i manage to keep things relatively calm. i understand that if you have a massave nitrate problem a water change would help but i would not suggest changing it as often or as much. add plants have a look in the garden section to see wich are the good ones for keeping down nitrates etc.

 

[reg2k2]

Sry, Mr. V, thought you did....
This is directly after an explanation on cycling, and how a new tank's bacteria load can be unstable for about 3 months.
"Each water and filter change reduces the amount of available bacteria and affects the tank's equilibrium."
And on this basis, it's recommended to wait a week between them, blah, blah...

Hope I don't get in trouble for that. Mr. Baensch...LUV ur stuff!!


Although, w/ nitrite levels so high, I'm not sure what I'd do.

Jam....nitrItes here, not nitrAtes. ...the frequent changes are to get the fish safely thru the cycling process.

 

[dolphin]

Hi NuSkoo

Back to the orignal thread.

The nitrite level will stay high for abour 2 weeks. As I have lots of angels, (I breed them) I always use them for cycling, as they are quite hardy, and have never lost one.

During the cycling process you should only do small water changes, or you will just lengthen the process, and stress the fish out for longer.

Good luck with the new tank.

Gust to add to the other posts. Nitrifing bacteria gown on the surfaces within the tank and filter. They can not live free swimming in the water.

Dolphin

 

[Jamnog]

oh
)

 

[NuSkool]

Mmkay... information overload is probably a good thing, and thank you so much for your help guys, I really appreciate it.
After the posts I got from MrV last night I got so scared that I did a 50% water change (at around midnight) I gravel vacced pretty thoroughly in the front of the tank (the back of the tank being heavily planted so it's hard to get to), added cycle and start right a and b, and warmed the water to 25C before adding it.
I didn't mention I have a smaller tank thats been up and running for nearly a month now, so I did a 30% water change in that too, that nitrite levels were perfect in that tank, but theres a drawf gourami in there that has Furunculosis, so I gave that tank some medication (it also has 4 glow light harlequins and 4 red tailed tetras) and went to bed.
This morning I woke up to a dead platinum angel fish in my big tank (well big in my terms, small in yours)... <CRieS> So I put the other angel in the little tank to hopefully give it some time to get over the toxic waste zone its been trying to deal with.
I just did tests on both tanks again and both are in the clear, but what I was wondering - are the nitrites are going to spike again because I did the 50% water change?
Did the angel die of shock from the water change, or toxicity?
I gave it the royal flush and siad a few nice words of good-bye and thanks, its just devastating coz I've only had them for just over a week. Awwww.
Another thing, any good plant profile sites with decent pictures that you can actually tell if you have that plant? All the ones I've seen have like inch long pictures and its hard to tell what the differences are between some plants.
Thanks heaps,
NuSkool

 

[mrV]

If there NO2- or NH3 in water, the only way is to get rid of them, is to change water enough. NH3 is real toxic. Pure water is always good for fishes. Even small toxic levels are harmfull. Nitrite is toxic because it can easily replace oxygen from hemoglobin. When metahemoglobin level is high, fish start to behave strange, looking quiet and die finaly - only way is to try to safe it, is to remove nitrite from water immediately. Sometimes fish has suffered too much and die although you changed water. (NH3/NH4, NO2- levels must be 0 mg/l)

One of our finnish hobbiests, who has studied zoology and spezialized in fish diseases, he recommends to change 75% of water weekly!! Yes, 75%. I use to change about 40-50% and fishes are healthy, no diseases at all. However, I used to keep only small quantity of fishes in tank. When you change water enough every week, the water values stay steady and water is pure.

If you think about natur, the water change all the time. It's pure, it's flowing, there is alot of oxygen... If you want to keep your fish healthy and want them to live several years, so change water enough. It's my opinion.

Reg2k2:

This is directly after an explanation on cycling, and how a new tank's bacteria load can be unstable for about 3 months.

Yes, when cycling... But in this case, there are fishes in a tank and nitrite too. How to get rid of toxic nitrite? Changing water. That's why it's important to cycle tank before putting any fish into it. When doing cycling right, using NH3 ot its salt, it takes only 3-6 weeks when tank is cycled and ready for fishes.

And yes, if you change water now 75%, fishes can die too. What?? Yes, they can die too, because they have tolerated bad water and gotten used to soiled water. When you change water, water parameters change too quickly and fishes could die. But in this case, NuSkool tank is new. When increasing water changes, it always good to start it changing water few times a week and after that change recularly enough water. In a week, water values don't change so much that it'll be harmfull to fishes to change water enough. If your tank is overstock/badly overstock, you should probably change water 2-3 times weekly.

Changing enough water is cheap way to keep fishes in good condition and healthy.

Edit. What comes biology of aquarium, it takes at least 6-12 months until the tank is biologically stable environment.