Truck
UKAPS
Where did betta898 state that they're not using a filter in this thread?
Is A 1 Gallon Okay? (I Can't Do Any Better!)
- Thread starter Volleyball_Rox
- Start date
Okay, I have a betta in a one gallon tank, and I want to get a bigger one, but I just CANT. I have a reason
I can't, and it is impossible for me to get a bigger one.
So will my betta die?
If the tank is unfiltered, just do daily waterchanges for now until you can possibly upgrade if you find the upkeep too difficult. If the tank is filtered, then partial daily waterchanges, maybe? Either way, The process will take less than 10 minutes once you get the hang of it and you can get on with more important matters.
Like posting a picture of your fish.
This I would like to see. Sorry for the ensuing debate.
We are a passionate, but a good group of people. Truck, while you are technically right, I seriously doubt many here practice Walstad's method for keeping planted tanks. If they did, they'd be posting it over at Planted and I'd been keenly interested.
Honeythorn
Sugar coating and nicely nicely? I don't think so
What I'd seriously love to know is why anyone is trying to lug a tankfull of water around a house , and trying to make the horrifically poor excuse that this is in some way easy and a good reason for a tank that is utterly unsuitable, when all you need is a bucket a jug and a syphon.
Syphon out half of the water, pour it away and fill up the bucket with fresh. Add Dechlor and allow to reach correct temperature, or add a little hot water to speed the process up. Carry this back to the tank and pour the water in gently with a jug.
It's not rocket science, and carrying your fishtank around to empty water out of it is a severely stupid thing to do, espescially if it's glass, and still contains the fish. What if you trip? it's easily done an You'll smash or crack the tank, severely stress, injure or kill the fish if it's in there at the time and also injure yourself. Then you'd have to get a new tank too. By comparison if you trip and drop a bucket of water all you'll get is a wet floor and bruises.
Being able to carry it around is one of the worst excuses for a too small tank I've heard in a long time.
We all know bettas can survive in a small amount of water. Many fish can, they have no choice and survival instinct kicks in. An oscar can survive in a 30 gallon tank given enough filtration and water changes, but that doesn't make it right to keep one in there.
While none of us can provide a vast river or lake of a home for our fish, it is our duty as an owner and enthusiast of the species to provide an environment that is as natural in size as possible in order for the fish to display natural behaviour and be at it's best. We know for a fact these fish in the wild, do NOT live permanently in tiny puddles of water. Their survival in these small puddles and trickles happens only in the dry season when water sources dry up, and thousands of these fish die from lack of water and oxygen despite their labyrinth organ.
During the rest of the year when water levels remain at a reasonable level ( in general volume not depth) the fish almost certainly occupy territories consisting of far more than a gallon or two, as the paddies and streams are huge/long and the fish are not crammed into spaces of 1-2 gallons each, they are far more widespread than that . 5-10 gallons is a vastly more realistic territory space .
In which case, how is it remotely ethical or humane to effectively re-create in tank form, a puddle ( by volume) with no swimming space, a build up of ammonia (even filtered) and people picking up the tank, walking about with it and pouring water in and out every other day or two in a futile bid to keep ammonia at an acceptable level?
Sorry but I don't call that experimentation or being edgy, or "having a different idea" I call it basic cruelty and willful disregard of the fishes needs based on it's wild habitat. They may be tank bred for finnage and colour, but otherwise remain the same as the wild fish. That's the reason we don't keep males together, or males and females ect. They have instincts and needs like any other fish and such things can't be bred in and out.
The whole attitudes of "I want to therefore I will" and "look at me I've done it" displayed by those who champion tiny tanks and think them to be normal are illogical.
There is no concievable humane reason to keep a fish in such a tiny amount of water, other than pure selfishness, just because you want to, just because the fish will survive it. If you don't have the space for a bigger tank ( which I severely doubt in the extreme) then don't keep it.
If you want multiple bettas, and don't have the space for decent sized tanks try stopping and thinking for a second about what the fish needs instead of what you want. If your home is so cluttered that 12-14 square inches of space can't be found somewhere then perhaps try re-organising your stuff instead of adding to the clutter by trying to cram 1-2 gallon tanks onto shelves ect.
Space can be made, cheap second hand tanks are almost always available, as are food safe tubs of 5gals upwards if a proper tank can't be found quickly . Even basic sponge filters can be made for next to nothing as a thread on this website proves.
It's not expensive, it's not difficult, and doesn't take up that much space - desk, worktop, chest of drawers, small table, tank stand, windowsill for custom/long thin tanks ....the list goes on and on.
Syphon out half of the water, pour it away and fill up the bucket with fresh. Add Dechlor and allow to reach correct temperature, or add a little hot water to speed the process up. Carry this back to the tank and pour the water in gently with a jug.
It's not rocket science, and carrying your fishtank around to empty water out of it is a severely stupid thing to do, espescially if it's glass, and still contains the fish. What if you trip? it's easily done an You'll smash or crack the tank, severely stress, injure or kill the fish if it's in there at the time and also injure yourself. Then you'd have to get a new tank too. By comparison if you trip and drop a bucket of water all you'll get is a wet floor and bruises.
Being able to carry it around is one of the worst excuses for a too small tank I've heard in a long time.
We all know bettas can survive in a small amount of water. Many fish can, they have no choice and survival instinct kicks in. An oscar can survive in a 30 gallon tank given enough filtration and water changes, but that doesn't make it right to keep one in there.
While none of us can provide a vast river or lake of a home for our fish, it is our duty as an owner and enthusiast of the species to provide an environment that is as natural in size as possible in order for the fish to display natural behaviour and be at it's best. We know for a fact these fish in the wild, do NOT live permanently in tiny puddles of water. Their survival in these small puddles and trickles happens only in the dry season when water sources dry up, and thousands of these fish die from lack of water and oxygen despite their labyrinth organ.
During the rest of the year when water levels remain at a reasonable level ( in general volume not depth) the fish almost certainly occupy territories consisting of far more than a gallon or two, as the paddies and streams are huge/long and the fish are not crammed into spaces of 1-2 gallons each, they are far more widespread than that . 5-10 gallons is a vastly more realistic territory space .
In which case, how is it remotely ethical or humane to effectively re-create in tank form, a puddle ( by volume) with no swimming space, a build up of ammonia (even filtered) and people picking up the tank, walking about with it and pouring water in and out every other day or two in a futile bid to keep ammonia at an acceptable level?
Sorry but I don't call that experimentation or being edgy, or "having a different idea" I call it basic cruelty and willful disregard of the fishes needs based on it's wild habitat. They may be tank bred for finnage and colour, but otherwise remain the same as the wild fish. That's the reason we don't keep males together, or males and females ect. They have instincts and needs like any other fish and such things can't be bred in and out.
The whole attitudes of "I want to therefore I will" and "look at me I've done it" displayed by those who champion tiny tanks and think them to be normal are illogical.
There is no concievable humane reason to keep a fish in such a tiny amount of water, other than pure selfishness, just because you want to, just because the fish will survive it. If you don't have the space for a bigger tank ( which I severely doubt in the extreme) then don't keep it.
If you want multiple bettas, and don't have the space for decent sized tanks try stopping and thinking for a second about what the fish needs instead of what you want. If your home is so cluttered that 12-14 square inches of space can't be found somewhere then perhaps try re-organising your stuff instead of adding to the clutter by trying to cram 1-2 gallon tanks onto shelves ect.
Space can be made, cheap second hand tanks are almost always available, as are food safe tubs of 5gals upwards if a proper tank can't be found quickly . Even basic sponge filters can be made for next to nothing as a thread on this website proves.
It's not expensive, it's not difficult, and doesn't take up that much space - desk, worktop, chest of drawers, small table, tank stand, windowsill for custom/long thin tanks ....the list goes on and on.
GuppyGoddess
Fish Herder
If the "Walstad Method" is being used by that person, why wasn't that mentioned? Seems like IF that's such a great alternative to regular water changes, that post would have included information or recommendations on HOW to do that sucessfully. Furthermore, if you think it's an excellent way to maintain an environmental ecosystem for a betta, why don't you, yourself, explain the details to the OPer?
Unless the person who posted about not changing their betta's water in 8 months provided the insight into how the fish survived, I find no credibility to the post.
Truck
UKAPS
It doesn't necessarily have to follow the Walstad method 100%, a cycled filter and some fast growing pond weed could sustain a tank for months on end.
I can turn the If the "Walstad Method" is being used by that person, why wasn't that mentioned? argument on it's head and say, how do you know it wasn't filtered if it wasn't mentioned, it works both ways.
In my opinion, some people really do disguise opinion as fact, this isn't just relevant to what I have discussed, but quite a lot of the posts in this section are so biased, I've heard it mentioned many times before: that anything under 5 gallons is a death trap, wow, what a statement, there are hundreds that keep Betta's in smaller tanks than this that do fine, the thing is, you have to think outside of the box before presuming things, if a betta has survived without water changes for 8 months, then something must be working, if the tank didn't have a filter the betta would be dead by now, so it's obvious that it has a filter, as for nitrates, dangerous levels begin at about 400ppm for Betta splendens, after 8 months, levels would be quite a lot higher than this, so something must be reducing them, be it Plants, or anaerobic bacteria that colonize in the substrate.
I agree that Betta 898's post has no credibility, but what I'm trying to say is, that it is possible for a betta to live in a tank for 8 months without a water change, people blindly dismiss that without taking all of the options into hand.
I can turn the If the "Walstad Method" is being used by that person, why wasn't that mentioned? argument on it's head and say, how do you know it wasn't filtered if it wasn't mentioned, it works both ways.
In my opinion, some people really do disguise opinion as fact, this isn't just relevant to what I have discussed, but quite a lot of the posts in this section are so biased, I've heard it mentioned many times before: that anything under 5 gallons is a death trap, wow, what a statement, there are hundreds that keep Betta's in smaller tanks than this that do fine, the thing is, you have to think outside of the box before presuming things, if a betta has survived without water changes for 8 months, then something must be working, if the tank didn't have a filter the betta would be dead by now, so it's obvious that it has a filter, as for nitrates, dangerous levels begin at about 400ppm for Betta splendens, after 8 months, levels would be quite a lot higher than this, so something must be reducing them, be it Plants, or anaerobic bacteria that colonize in the substrate.
I agree that Betta 898's post has no credibility, but what I'm trying to say is, that it is possible for a betta to live in a tank for 8 months without a water change, people blindly dismiss that without taking all of the options into hand.
nessar
Fishaholic
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Hey where can I find this research? Sounds good.
Truck
UKAPS
The internet.
woodstock
Fishaholic
I also agree, to some extent, that it is SOMEWHAT possible for 8months without a water change, but I would never, ever, ever make myself sound like I'm promoting it, or even being on the optimistic side of such an appalling act. It may survive, and that's as far as I would ever go. I do NOT promote this, the quality must be TERRIBLE, and that just goes on. We want to help people with their fish. Now, it's good to keep an "open mind", but there always will be a vague line between whats good, and what's not. I must personally differentiate 8-months without a water change as something NOT to do. Some people take the slightest optimism in a post and use it in real life. I'd rather not see this again, and yes, I have witnessed something like this first hand. I can understand beating something or someone down is not the best thing, but we still need the good and bad boundaries of fish keeping.
If anyone else reads this, please, just don't go past one month without a water change. Just, please.
What I'd seriously love to know is why anyone is trying to lug a tankfull of water around a house , and trying to make the horrifically poor excuse that this is in some way easy and a good reason for a tank that is utterly unsuitable, when all you need is a bucket a jug and a syphon.
Syphon out half of the water, pour it away and fill up the bucket with fresh. Add Dechlor and allow to reach correct temperature, or add a little hot water to speed the process up. Carry this back to the tank and pour the water in gently with a jug.
I have a personal story to this, but I'll keep it short. A distant relative attempted this. He fell. He slit his throat. He IS alive today, very much alive and very much well, but you can just imagine the absolute, sheer terror everyone who knew him faced. (I was too young to remember this, but this was my lecture when I got my fish at first). It's understandable if there is some difficulty in water changes, but this should not be an excuse... be careful, people!
Volleyball_rox , well, as you can see, you have different opinions on your 1gallon. Try to get the best information out of this. Do plenty of water changes! And don't let the negativity bring you down. Negativity shouldn't be welcome, only strong and fluent persuasion should. Good luck with your betta
And everyone else, also, she's quite young for her age so there WILL be difficulties, undoubtedly with the parentl units. She cannot just go to the store and get something for herself. We are not in court, so always understand circumstances guys.
OP
OP
Volleyball_Rox
Fish Fanatic
Well she said no, then today I made a comment about him looking unhappy, and she suggested a tankmate and a bigger tank. So she said maybe to both, and I'm researching good tank mates, and bigger tanks. She just didn't want that particular tank because she likes the glass ones, and she likes the way glass ones look.
Erm, what do you mean they live in "1ml" of water? As in the wild? Could you clarify?
Volleyball_rox, did talking to your mom not work out then? I'm sorry
You'll be keeping up with hefty maintenance for him then. Treat him well
So, it was a miscommuncation.
You can read my latest post for the details, if you choose.
Thx for all your help!
woodstock
Fishaholic
You know, that's even better that she preferes glass over plastic. Glass looks nicely, and lasts longer. That's great! How big? Good luck with tank mates, I know that one will be a journey... again, this is debateable. I honestly think bettas don't need tankmates to be "Happier". Their happiness comes us, their human friends, and our interactions with them They're very territorial,so.... yeah. Lol
Hopefully, there won't be any miscommunications! *Hint. Get as big a tank as possible. Lol
They're very territorial,so.... yeah. Lol Hopefully, there won't be any miscommunications! *Hint. Get as big a tank as possible. Lol
OP
OP
Volleyball_Rox
Fish Fanatic
Right now we are looking into 5 gallons. Just the regular old fish tank with glass and a vented lid. But I can't seem to find those online, everything is a big fancy with light and decorative gravel and whatnot gimmick. I don't want that, I want a regular, empty, fish tank. No accesories needed, I can provide that.You know, that's even better that she preferes glass over plastic. Glass looks nicely, and lasts longer. That's great! How big? Good luck with tank mates, I know that one will be a journey... again, this is debateable. I honestly think bettas don't need tankmates to be "Happier". Their happiness comes us, their human friends, and our interactions with them
Hopefully, there won't be any miscommunications! *Hint. Get as big a tank as possible. Lol
Sigh.
But tomro or sunday we are going to go look in stores.
woodstock
Fishaholic
For me, there was Walmart. But that includes without the hood. I think a 10gal was about $15, but it was JUST the tank.
Well, with your specifications, you should try this:
http
/www.walmart.com/ip/Tetra-Aquarium-Starter-Kit-5-Gallons-Fish-Aquatic-Pets/12177653
(BTW, It's probably also sold in stores).
I have this. It comes with:
2 plants, light, filter, filter cartidge, food, and water conditioner. THe food isn't recommended for bettas, though. I know you want to "Start from scratch", but this is $30. What you want from this is the tank, and filter, and light. For $30, that's already a bargain. But try Walmart, I always see empty tanks there.
(Just FYI, for lighting, if it says incandescent bulb, you might want to go ahead and buy a flourescent bulb. Incandescent bulbs are terrible and yellow-ish. Fluorescent bulbs give aquariums that 'bright aquarium' look. And incandescent ruins a betta's colors. Personal thought and experience).
Well, with your specifications, you should try this:
http
/www.walmart.com/ip/Tetra-Aquarium-Starter-Kit-5-Gallons-Fish-Aquatic-Pets/12177653(BTW, It's probably also sold in stores).
I have this. It comes with:
2 plants, light, filter, filter cartidge, food, and water conditioner. THe food isn't recommended for bettas, though. I know you want to "Start from scratch", but this is $30. What you want from this is the tank, and filter, and light. For $30, that's already a bargain. But try Walmart, I always see empty tanks there.
(Just FYI, for lighting, if it says incandescent bulb, you might want to go ahead and buy a flourescent bulb. Incandescent bulbs are terrible and yellow-ish. Fluorescent bulbs give aquariums that 'bright aquarium' look. And incandescent ruins a betta's colors. Personal thought and experience).
Well she said no, then today I made a comment about him looking unhappy, and she suggested a tankmate and a bigger tank. So she said maybe to both, and I'm researching good tank mates, and bigger tanks. She just didn't want that particular tank because she likes the glass ones, and she likes the way glass ones look.
Erm, what do you mean they live in "1ml" of water? As in the wild? Could you clarify?
Volleyball_rox, did talking to your mom not work out then? I'm sorry
You'll be keeping up with hefty maintenance for him then. Treat him well
So, it was a miscommuncation.
You can read my latest post for the details, if you choose.
Thx for all your help!
He doesn't need a tankmate to be happy but in a 5 gallon tank you could have something small and quiet like a couple of dwarf frogs or 6 shrimp. They are fun to watch and a little bit different!
It's great that she said you could look at bigger tanks, way to go!
He didn't, but given the flippant tone of the post and the lack of information about his "method" one can quite reasonably summise that he doesn't have one. If he does, he can correct me himself and I will apologise for a misunderstanding.
It's perfectly possible for fish to survive in very high ammonia levels, it is simply very uncommon. I've seen bettas survive some horrible ordeals and while they have not come out of them fine, they've not been killed outright either. Just because the fish isn't dead, that doesn't mean anything about the method is working, if there is such a thing as a method being employed. Unless of course the objective is survival, and even then I would say luck plays a huge part.
Nitrates are also not the only thing to be worried about with a lack of water changes. I'd be more worried about a build up of parasite or pathogen colonies and the pH of the water starting to swing.
Clearly it is possible for the betta to survive - this one has. However, I don't think Betta898 needs people playing devil's advocate or defending him. If he is a credible fishkeeper he can defend himself and if he isn't, hopefully he'll learn from this.
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