Iron ?

[karlp]

Hi

Just wanted to check..

When setting up my planted tank, I mixed a pot and a half of JBL Florapol into the substrate which I understand from the literature should give good nutrients to the plants for up to 3 years (it's Rio 180 size).

I bought an Iron test kit the other day, just to check on Iron content in the water (ferrous and chellated) and it gave readings of 0 on both counts, but I can still see the florapol in the lower substrate through the glass and the plants didn't go into the tank until just after Christmas.

I've been doing more regular water changes because of fighting an ich outbreak, but at the last water change I had added a cap and a half of JBL Ferropol. I also had removed all the carbon because of the ich medications and am intending to leave them out anyway to keep the nutrients in the water. I have a UV sterilizer.

Not sure what to read into this.... shouldn't I be getting iron disolved from the substrate in the readings ? is the test kit any use ?

any ideas ?

 

[Waterloo Kid]

The idea of substrate additives is to allow root feeding plants to take in the nutrients. keeping the nutrients in the substrate and out of the water column effectively hides them from algae. I'm sure some will leeah into the water column but most should remain in the substrate.
Another point that I've heard about is that iron is renowned for oxidising very quickly in an aquarium and so you may need to dose small amounts more regularly. The more experienced people here could tell you more about that.

WK

 

[George Farmer]

Another point that I've heard about is that iron is renowned for oxidising very quickly in an aquarium and so you may need to dose small amounts more regularly.

WK has very a good point there.

Running a UV steriliser will also render a lot of other micronutrients useless but it will help in the treatment of your ich.

As for iron kits I personally don't rate them. As long as you are dosing iron regularly (assuming you have enough growth to justify it) then I would just follow the instructions.

 

[karlp]

OK, that's interesting.

Apart from (obviously) floating plants and mosses.. what plants would not take their goodies from the substrate ?

I've deliberately tried to go for plants with root systems at the moment, because somehow I feel they ought to be easier to grow (probably wrong but hey). E Tenellus, Vallisineria, Anubias, Hair grass. Although one of the Anubias is not in the substrate and is on some rock work.

The E Tenellus is rampant, which is great and has loads of runners and is thickening up nicely. the Vallisineria is also doing well and has grown long and is producing plantlets. The Anubias is not showing as much signs of growth, although funnily enough the best looking one is the one that isn't in the substrate at the edge of the tank. the roots of the Anubias aren't long enough to get to the nutrient layer anyway. The ones in the centre of the tank get too much light I think and I'm thinking about moving them because they just seem to attract algae.. the hair grass hasn't done terribly well either so far.

Do I need to dose the water ? or should I just look after the substrate ?

What with all the stuff on EI etc... it's all very confusing...

 

[Jen]

Stem plants like Hygro and ludwiga species suck the nurtients in through their leaves, opposed to roots. I don't think it would hurt to add in a good allround trace element fertalizer. That will add all the nutrients that aren't readily available in the substrate, so long as you aren't heavily planted, or have tons of light. Then you would need to add nitrates and phosphates as well.

 

[simonbrown403]

Have you read the pinned version at the top of the page

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=104737

 

[George Farmer]

Do I need to dose the water ? or should I just look after the substrate ?

What's your lighting, CO2 etc? It's a Rio 180 right? Have you replaced the supplied tubes and fitted reflectors?

Fertilisation is a fairly complex subject that is entirely dependent on nutrient uptake. Nutrient uptake is directly linked to plant growth rate that is in turn linked to lighting levels, CO2 levels and other nutrients present.

You have been wise in choosing a nutrient-rich substrate but this alone may not supply sufficient nutrients to some of your plants - but as I mentioned this depends on your nutrient uptake rate.

Do you have Anubias nana? If so then it will do better attached to wood or stone, burying the rhizome and roots can result in it rotting, this may explain why the one that isn't buried is doing best.

Give us more tank details and we should be able to help furthur.

 

[karlp]

It's actually an Eheim Smaragad 100 tank, which is identical in size to a Rio 180, but looks a bit nicer as a piece of furniture and comes with an Eheim professinal 2224, which I prefer to the Juwel internal filter.

I've upgraded the lighting, so instead of the 2 * 30W bulbs, I have 4 * 30W bulbs and they are good for plant growth with reflectors.

I'm running 2 * 2 litre DIY CO2 units and the output varies between 20 and 30 ppm CO2. Water is hard 15 KH and that is after I've mixed the tap water with RO (50:50).

There's a JBL heated cable underneath surrounded with pea gravel. A layer of Aquaclay mixed with Florapol and then another layer of pea gravel (originally I'd intended to just go with the Aquaclay, but the damn stuff is too light).

There's quite a lot of planting.

Pic from a couple of weeks back:

The e tenellus and Vallisinaria have grown quite a bit since then, but so's the algae

Cheers

 

[Jen]

Do you have test kits for nitrates and phosphates (NO3 and PO4)? I have a feeling that if you are only using the substrate ferts, you will be very low on these, and that would trigger the algae.

 

[karlp]

Thanks for the reply

I've not got an accurate nitrate test kit (just the Tetra strip test kit which is probably not that accurate, but is showing less than 10ppm).
No tests for phosphates.

Sorry if this stuff has all been covered before. What Nitrate and Phosphate levels should I be looking for ? (I'll go get some kits)...

 

[Jen]

The dip tests are always off. Most people here with planted tanks aim for 20ppm of nitrate, and 2ppm phosphates. They should be in a 10:1 ratio.

 

[karlp]

OK. Thanks for that. I've been out at lunch time and got an accurate nitrate and phosphate test kit.... will test tonight and post tomorrow.

Thanks

Karl.

 

[karlp]

I've tested the water and the readings are as follows:

NO3 - 0ppm
PO4 - 0.25ppm

So is it a case now of buying Aqua essentials Potassium Nitrate and Mono Potassium Sulphate and trying to reach PO4 2ppm and NO3 20ppm ?

 

[George Farmer]

I've tested the water and the readings are as follows:

NO3 - 0ppm
PO4 - 0.25ppm

So is it a case now of buying Aqua essentials Potassium Nitrate and Mono Potassium Sulphate and trying to reach PO4 2ppm and NO3 20ppm ?

I'd say so. Get some KNO3 in there ASAP or you may experience algae or BGA problems, you'll probably see better health in your plants too.

You may not need K2SO4, I find there's enough Potassium in my KNO3, but it doesn't do any harm to get some anyway. I still have 3Kg in the shed!

 

[karlp]

Thanks! It's on order....

and there is some hair algae in the tank which I'd like to get rid of.