Instructions Follwed But Fish Dying?

[the_lock_man]

Just my twopenn'orth on the "sucking fish" you mentioned earlier. Hillstream Loaches (also known as Borneo Suckers, in many LFSs) stay quite small (around 5-7cm, depending upon exact species), and I would think are suitable for your tank.

 

[fluttermoth]

Hillstream loaches do stay small, but are not suitable for the normal, community tank. They have very specific requirements; a very high flow of water and high oxygen, plus a slightly lower temperature than most trops would be happy at.

 

[jrcan]

quick update:

after changing approximately 60-70% over 2 water changes, the most being 50% changed last night the readings this morning are as follows:

ammonia: 0.5 (previously 0.5)
nitrite: 2 (previously 1)
nitrate: 10 (previously 10)

so whats happened is nitrite has increased yet the others remain unchanged. the next set of results are going to be more reliable i think as the first were readings from the pet store, the second from me so there may be a bit of difference as to what he thinks the colour is compared to how i would see it.

is this progress or should there have been more of a change considering a lot of water has changed?

 

[fluttermoth]

If your nitrite is going up, then your cycle is moving, but those levels are far, far too high for fish.

You need to do more, probably larger changes to get them down. Do a single 80 or 90% change next time, rather than two smaller ones (don't forget to swtich your heater and filter off when doing large changes).

 

[Miles_hot]

I would guess that not as much water changed as you thougth, or stuff is pumping ammonia out pretty fast I fear you need to do some more big water changes in the same evening and get that ammonia down to less than 0.25. In managing to do this your Nitrite will also come down.

Miles

 

[coldcazzie]

Hey jrcan, you need to do an immediate very large (as in 95%+) water change, followed by another one roughly the same size (although could be slightly smaller) immediately afterwards.

Nitrite of 2ppm is NOT GOOD for your fish! you need to lower it NOW!

The reason I suggest changes that large is because: removing 95% of the water will remove 95% of the nitrite, leaving you with about 0.1ppm, then another large change (at least 75% would be ok) would remove as much of the rest as you can. The levels need to be as close to 0 as you can make them. Removing 50% would only remove 50% of the nitrite, still leaving you with 1ppm, therefore the change is not large enough.

The water changes are much less stressful to the fish (as long as you use temperature matched, dechlorinated water) than being suffocated by nitrite poisoning.

 

[jrcan]

ok thanks for the advice so is it better to do 95% change rather than put the fish somewhere else ie a large bowl and completely change evrything? we have sand in our tank so should i stir it up before water changes or leave it?

what i dont understand (i'm not very good with this sort of thing!) is the water levels were good before we put fish in then they changed.so if we put new water in will the levels gradually rise again like they did when the fish first went in? i've noticed when we do water changes the tetras seem to hide but the guppies love it!

 

[the_lock_man]

ok thanks for the advice so is it better to do 95% change rather than put the fish somewhere else ie a large bowl and completely change evrything? we have sand in our tank so should i stir it up before water changes or leave it?

what i dont understand (i'm not very good with this sort of thing!) is the water levels were good before we put fish in then they changed.so if we put new water in will the levels gradually rise again like they did when the fish first went in? i've noticed when we do water changes the tetras seem to hide but the guppies love it!

The levels were fine previously, because there was nothing to make them un-fine. If left unfiltered, fish poison themselves with their own waste. The ammonia and nitrite levels change because the fish produce ammonia.

 

[fluttermoth]

It's better to do large water changes with the fish in the tank; it's more stressful for them to be caught and moved than stay where they are. Leave them enough water to swim upright; you don't want them flapping about! Stir the sand gently as you syphon out; if you pick up a lot of sand, just give it a rinse and tip it back in.

 

[rob158]

Welcome to the forum
I dont have much to add as the other members are doing fine to help,
your story sounds like when I started, fish where dying and disappearing into the filter etc, I finally gave up on the tank and didn't try agian for a year or two, but now I have two tanks and nothing dies,
so what im tring to say is dont waste time by giving up!
also the test strips dont have a bit to give you a reading of ammonia, at least i've not seen one that has so there may be one about somewhere.

I hope you have fun, get on well and stick around on the forum to keep us updated even after you have everything sorted

 

[coldcazzie]

ok thanks for the advice so is it better to do 95% change rather than put the fish somewhere else ie a large bowl and completely change evrything?

yes, definitely netting them can damage their slime coat so you should only do it if you absolutely have to. Always leave them in while doing water changes, as flutter said - just leave them enough water to swim upright in.

we have sand in our tank so should i stir it up before water changes or leave it?

Use your gravel vac and sort of hover it about half an inch over the top of the sand. It should suck up any bits of poop etc which are laying on top of the sand. If it doesn't, sort of swirl it around a bit, the water movement should pull the bits up off the surface of the sand.

what i dont understand (i'm not very good with this sort of thing!) is the water levels were good before we put fish in then they changed.so if we put new water in will the levels gradually rise again like they did when the fish first went in?

No fish = no poop. No poop = no ammonia.

Just by being in the tank the fish produce ammonia, via gill action and decaying of poop. So yes, the ammonia levels will rise simply because you have fish in the fish tank.

However, the reason you have a filter is to grow 2 nice colonies of bacteria that turn ammonia into nitrite and nitrite into nitrate. The only problem with that is that they take a while to grow to a sufficient number that can take care of the ammonia produced by your fish (around 2 months for both colonies to form).

So, until the colony of bacteria is large enough to eat all the ammonia/nitrite, you have to manually remove the water to stop it from poisoning the fish. The bacteria will grow anyway, regardless of whether you remove the water or not. But if you don't remove the water (and the high ammonia and nitrite along with it) then at best your fish will have permenant damage, at worst they'll die.

While you're cycling you can help the ammonia levels stay low by not feeding your fish much. You can very safely cut back to feeding only twice a week, and because they are eating less, they will poop less, meaning less ammonia in the water. Then once your filter is matured you can slowly increase the amount and frequency of feeds.

Untill your filter is cycled, you need to test the water every day, and if the ammonia or nitrite levels are above 0.25 then you do water changes until they aren't, even if that means a 95% water change, or even 2 95% water changes! Water changes are your best friend at the moment. You should expect to be doing them every day.

I know it's a ballache, but it's gotta be better than dead fish?!

 

[jrcan]

just changed approximately 80% results now:

ammonia: 0.25
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 10

we then tested the tap water and that came out:

ammonia: 0
nitrate: 10 (ever so slightly worrying!!!)

edit: the ammonia reading was between 0 and 0.25 for tank reading but thought i had better class it as 0.25 to be on the safe side.thats the downfall with the colours, theres no inbetween.

 

[fluttermoth]

Sorry, but you're going to have to do another one; ammonia of 0.25 or over can do permanent damage to the fish's gills, and it will build up to a dangerous level between now and your next change if you leave it.

A nitrate level of 10 from your tap is perfectly ok; some people have 40, and even that's not a problem, unless you have very sensitve fish. The average tropical fish can easily cope with nitrate of 100-200ppm without ill effects.

 

[HayzH]

just changed approximately 80% results now:

ammonia: 0.25
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 10

we then tested the tap water and that came out:

ammonia: 0
nitrate: 10 (ever so slightly worrying!!!)

edit: the ammonia reading was between 0 and 0.25 for tank reading but thought i had better class it as 0.25 to be on the safe side.thats the downfall with the colours, theres no inbetween.

my 3 Mollies died with the Ammonia being at 0.25ppm

 

[coldcazzie]

we then tested the tap water and that came out:

ammonia: 0
nitrate: 10 (ever so slightly worrying!!!)

Nitrate is not worrying. By law there can be up to 50ppm of nitrate in tap water and it still be acceptable. Even at several hundred ppm it's safe for fish. Many planted people add inorganic nitrate to their tanks to feed the plants, and no fish suffer because of it. Don't get flustered about nitrate.