Instructions Follwed But Fish Dying?

[jrcan]

ok, i cant quite remember what im thinking of that used to clean my dads tank but if they grow too large then ill stick with the little ones. at the mo im thinking maybe stick it out with the water change and see whos left at the end. i do like the neons as they brighten it up so id like to keep some of them. the guppies look great especially the males although if my females survive that could cause a problem!

also one last question, how long does a fish have to be dead in a tank before it becomes toxic? our first filter victim was dead for over 12 hours before we found him on the first day. could this have had any impact?

edit: im guessing male guppies aren't too fond of sharing females then!

 

[fluttermoth]

ok, i cant quite remember what im thinking of that used to clean my dads tank but if they grow too large then ill stick with the little ones. at the mo im thinking maybe stick it out with the water change and see whos left at the end. i do like the neons as they brighten it up so id like to keep some of them. the guppies look great especially the males although if my females survive that could cause a problem!

Oh, I'm sure you're thinking of the right sort of fish; everyone used to have them to 'clean the tank' in those days; even if we didn't like them I expect it was just a normal one that never grew properly.

also one last question, how long does a fish have to be dead in a tank before it becomes toxic? our first filter victim was dead for over 12 hours before we found him on the first day. could this have had any impact?

It will have started to rot and produce ammonia very quickly in the warm water, but such a small fish won't have had that much of an effect; it's the ammonia the live fish are producing right now that's your main concern.

edit: im guessing male guppies aren't too fond of sharing females then!

The reason for the 1m/2f is because male guppies are sex mad and can actually harrass the females to death if there aren't enough to go round...

 

[jrcan]

i had convinced myself the first day that the initial deaths were my fault from the filter. when the first went missing we took the bottom of the filter off (thinking it got sucked inside) but nothing. looked in all the decorations, nothing. i even looked under the settee incase it somehow jumped out of the back and flapped across the room! we convinced ourselves that the shop only put 5 in the bag.only after the 2nd one went missing did we find them in the top of the filter. im glad we got them out then as it could have been a lot worse if they had rotted!

 

[fluttermoth]

Normal, healthy fish do not get sucked into filters! What happens is that the fish dies and the filter does it's job and tries to suck it in. It's a mistake a lot of newbies make

 

[laura120381]

+1

 

[Miles_hot]

Normal, healthy fish do not get sucked into filters! What happens is that the fish dies and the filter does it's job and tries to suck it in. It's a mistake a lot of newbies make

Rubbish Flutter - I've seen "finding Nemo" - it clearly shows them swimming into the filter to escape etc

 

[fluttermoth]

Normal, healthy fish do not get sucked into filters! What happens is that the fish dies and the filter does it's job and tries to suck it in. It's a mistake a lot of newbies make

Rubbish Flutter - I've seen "finding Nemo" - it clearly shows them swimming into the filter to escape etc

I loved Finding Nemo, but from an aquarist's point of view, I regret it ever being made....if I have to be in one more LFS where I hear someone talking about 'Nemo's' or 'Dory's' or getting all the fish from the film in their blimming three foot tank, I swear I shall explode.

 

[Louiseness]

Normal, healthy fish do not get sucked into filters! What happens is that the fish dies and the filter does it's job and tries to suck it in. It's a mistake a lot of newbies make

Rubbish Flutter - I've seen "finding Nemo" - it clearly shows them swimming into the filter to escape etc

Not surprised they wanted to escape, their 'marine' setup had plastic plants and multicoloured gravel

 

[jrcan]

ok guys quick update: basically, went to pets at home where the tank and fish came from and they did a water check. the results:

ammonia = 0.5ppm (categorised as unsafe, change 20% water)
nitrite = 1ppm (categorised as unsafe, check weekly)
nitrate = 10ppm (categorised as unsafe, check weekly)
ph = 8 (apparently this is due to location).

we were advised to change at least 25% of the water, add conditioners and retest in a week.

since then within the week we changed approximately 30% spread over 2 water changes both using pipe to syphon the water. we added everything we needed ie dechlorinating liquid and filter bacteria which we were told we need to add. just got back from the store and they repeated the test and told us that nothing had changed. we have our own test kit and we tested the water after the first water check (mainly to have a practise with the new kit) and it was also the same.

so really we've done everything they said but no improvement. starting to get a bit worried as we only have 3 neons and 2 guppies, 2 of the neons have started bumping into each other aggressively. not sure if this is due to them being in such a small group?

we've now been told that we have to do 10% water change every other day, testing weekly and if nothing happens check the tap water for nitrate and if still no luck then buy ion water from halfords? we were told it could take up to 9 months. my main worry is how are our fish going to cope if it is 9 months with such a small community? its a 64 litre tank.

any ideas what we are doing wrong??


also, not sure if this is relevant but the store has given us a voucher to replace the 3 neons which died initially and when we've been to the store we looked in the neon tank and in the filter there were about 4 or 5 dead fish in it. not sure how long they had been in there but would it be wise to shop somewhere else? in that store it was only the neon tetras that had this problem.

 

[Zirallan]

Listen to the nifty people here instead of the pet store people. I'm new to fish keeping, but I've already learned to pretty much disreguard most of what the people who sell me fish have to say.

I don't have much advice BUT I do have some words of encouragement. It will NOT take 9 months and you do NOT need special stuff to cycle your tank. It just takes a lot of time and patience and water changes. My tank was accidentally uncycled (someone tried to help me and rinsed the filter with tap water.. NEVER do that!) and it took about 3 weeks to start seeing any improvement. It took about 2 months for it to cycle. I tested daily and kept record of everything. There are a lot of times when it looked like it was never gonna cycle.. But sticking with it and keeping on top of the water changes has led me to have a happy, healthy tank. Two of them now, actually. They're a tad addicting. There are no 'quick cures' for cycling. It simply takes a long time and patience. I know your fish look miserable now, but it gets better.

 

[Overload]

Listen to the nifty people here instead of the pet store people. I'm new to fish keeping, but I've already learned to pretty much disreguard most of what the people who sell me fish have to say.

I don't have much advice BUT I do have some words of encouragement. It will NOT take 9 months and you do NOT need special stuff to cycle your tank. It just takes a lot of time and patience and water changes. My tank was accidentally uncycled (someone tried to help me and rinsed the filter with tap water.. NEVER do that!) and it took about 3 weeks to start seeing any improvement. It took about 2 months for it to cycle. I tested daily and kept record of everything. There are a lot of times when it looked like it was never gonna cycle.. But sticking with it and keeping on top of the water changes has led me to have a happy, healthy tank. Two of them now, actually. They're a tad addicting. There are no 'quick cures' for cycling. It simply takes a long time and patience. I know your fish look miserable now, but it gets better.

+1

 

[Miles_hot]

As you're doing a fish in cycle so every day (at least once a day):

1) Do water test yourself
2) If the reading for Ammonia or Nitrite is 0.25 or above do a water change. The higher the reading the more water you change. It's simple maths: If the reading is 0.5ppm and you change 50% of the water you'll get the reading down to 0.25ppm (not low enough) if you do 80% it will be OK.
3) Re-do the water test - if the reading is 0.25 ppm or above do another water change straight away.

You might be worried that you're stressing the fish by changing the water and notice that they're zooming around. Don't worry - partly they're excited by the fresh water and different currents (my tigers love playing with the incoming water) and partly they're wound up by change. HOWEVER they will be one heck of a lot more stressed by being in toxic water!

How much can you change in one go I hear you ask (see you're taking advice from someone who hears voices.....)? Basically you only have to leave enough so that the tallest fish can swim upright. If you have a very high reading you'll have to do a couple of changes. This shouldn't happen very often as you'll get the big numbers down tonight and then be on top of it with daily changes. You'll get a feel for how much you have to change to keep up with the rate of excretion that the fish can put out. The size (not frequency) of the water changes will decrease over time as your filter takes up the strain. Eventually when the thing is cycled you'll be doing weekly changes but don't expect to do that for some time yet.

Don't over feed the fish (more food = more poo + uneaten food rotting = more water changes).

Keep testing = if you're not testing at least once a day (and frankly I can't see why you wouldn't be doing it twice a day) take the fish back to the store and do a fishless cycle which is less work and doesn't risk the fish because your schedule doesn't give you the time to fish in cycle (that's why we did Add and Wait fishless cycle + less risk to the fish = less stress for us!).

Good luck - this place will be behind you all the way and the people on here have nothing to gain from one course of action or another unlike someone who's selling you stuff

Miles

 

[jrcan]

thanks again for the advice

when i do water changes, how long should i leave it before i do a water test? would the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels decrease immediately or does it take a few hours?

 

[fluttermoth]

You just need to give the new water time to mix properly with the old; half an hour would be plenty of time.

 

[Miles_hot]

I agree with fluttermoth 20 - 30 mins will be mote than ample with the pump running. I also leave the same sort of time when doing a double change to ensure a near 100% water change. Make a nice cup of tea and drink it - my sort I'd measure of time