Instructions Follwed But Fish Dying?

[jrcan]

Hi everyone, first post!

I recently bought a 64L fishbox tropical tank. We followed every instruction we were given, set the tank up and left it 7 days before taking a sample of the water to the pet shop for testing before we got any fish. everything was fine and we got 6 neon tetras (we were advised these were best to start with although other sources tell us otherwise). 3 died within 24 hours after swimming into the filter. we complained to the pet store and they gave us a voucher to replace the tetras in a weeks time. the 3 remaining looked so lost and lonely. About a week later we got 2 platties (sorry if thats spelt wrong!) and 2 guppies and the tank was thriving! the fish we loving it and so happy and lively. however this morning (2 days after purchase) one was dead. i removed it straight away but now the other platty isn't so lively, just staying mainly on the sand.

its really frustrating because i don't know what i'm doing wrong. the worst part is an expert at the pet shop told us different to another expert at a different shop. its so hard what to believe when everyone seems to have a different opinion.

i dont know whether im getting too sentimental applying human emotions to fish, ie do they feel lonely when theres just a few or is it a co-incidence they seem happier when more fish were added?

i'm going to do another water check as soon as i can to establish whats wrong. does anyone on here have any advice such as do i buy new fish to replace ones which die or wait until a lot die before replacing them?

around 10 years ago my parents kept fish and my dad never did a water change as he wasnt aware of it, occasionally used stress coat and generally just fed the fish and cleaned the tank and his fish lasted years. i cant understand where i'm going wrong!

 

[Overload]

It sounds like your in a fish-in cycle,
see http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/224306-fish-in-cycling/

The fish shop has told you a load of bull so they can sell more stuff to you

Sorry

Edited to add, fist thing on your shopping list should be a test kit

 

[Fishy friend2]

Do a fish less cycle take the fish back and try a fish less cycle I guarentee you that after you do a fish less cycle none of you fish will die like that and get your own test kit to check the water don't trust the pet shops

 

[Louiseness]

I'm afraid you've got the same problem as lots of people when they start out - you need to cycle your tank and noone has told you how.

Lots of fish shops say the usual 'leave your water for a few days/a week' but really this does nothing. When they test the water, of course it will be fine because it's still just tap water.

Fish in your tank produce ammonia in their waste, which can (and wilL!) poison them if it builds up in the water.

To prevent this, you go through a cycle - basically, growing bacteria in your filter which turn the ammonia into harmless chemicals. But it takes time (usually a couple of months) for these bacteria to grow.

If you read the info about cycling in the beginners resource centre it will explain it all to you there, hopefully

At the moment, you're doing what's called a 'fish in cycle'. Levels of ammonia or nitrite (both harmful chemicals) over 0.25 ppm WILL hurt the fish, so the two main things to do are 1) get your own testing kit, you need to be testing the water every day, and 2) lots of water changes (using warm dechlorinated water) to keep the levels of harmful chemicals down until the bacteria grow.

I'd suggest straight away to do as big a water change as you can manage, 80% or more if you can. It will really help out your fish.

 

[jrcan]

thanks for the speedy replies and to think, we thought our first house pets would be fish as theyre easier to care for than cats!

i dont like the thought of taking the fish back to restart the cycle so that would have to be my last resort. its frustrating for me as i work as a carer so my natural instict is to try and do whats best (although fish seem a lot harder than adults to look after!)

i guess im frustrated that one pet place tells me something completely different to another. would be so much easier if they all agreed. in fairness to one of the men, he did recommend other places to buy fish for more variety rather than trying to push the ones at their shop.

edit: quick question to make sure i'm getting the idea right, if i do a large water change like suggested, exactly how? sounds dumb i know but would i need to get a big bucket of tap water then add the de-chlorinating liquid to it then scoop out the water from the tank then tip the new water in?

 

[fluttermoth]

Hi everyone, first post!

welcome to the forum!

I recently bought a 64L fishbox tropical tank. We followed every instruction we were given, set the tank up and left it 7 days before taking a sample of the water to the pet shop for testing before we got any fish. everything was fine and we got 6 neon tetras (we were advised these were best to start with although other sources tell us otherwise). 3 died within 24 hours after swimming into the filter. we complained to the pet store and they gave us a voucher to replace the tetras in a weeks time. the 3 remaining looked so lost and lonely. About a week later we got 2 platties (sorry if thats spelt wrong!) and 2 guppies and the tank was thriving! the fish we loving it and so happy and lively. however this morning (2 days after purchase) one was dead. i removed it straight away but now the other platty isn't so lively, just staying mainly on the sand.

Your fish are probaly sick and dying due to a build up of ammonia in the water. Neons do not do well in newly set up tanks as they have not been well bred in recent years and are not the tough fish they used to be.

Eventually you'll get a colony of good bacteria growing in your filter that will eat that for you and turn the ammonia (very toxic) into ntrIte (less toxic, but still dangerous) and then into nitrAte (only toxic at very high concentrations) which is removed with weekly water changes).

Running the tank for a week does nothing to grow the bacteria, as they need a source of ammonia, either added or from fish before they'll grow.

You're now in what we call a 'fish-in cycle'; there are some great articles on cycling in our beginner's resource centre (the link is in my sig), so have a read of those, but basically, you have to remove the ammonia yourself with daily, 50% water changes until the bacteria grow (or return the fish to the shop and do a fishless cycle). If you can afford to get some test kits of your own, that would be best (but get the liquid/test tube type, not the paper strips).

its really frustrating because i don't know what i'm doing wrong. the worst part is an expert at the pet shop told us different to another expert at a different shop. its so hard what to believe when everyone seems to have a different opinion.

I know how frustrating it is, but you're in the best place now; don't forget that all shops have to make the sale; we here care only about the health and happiness of your fish

i dont know whether im getting too sentimental applying human emotions to fish, ie do they feel lonely when theres just a few or is it a co-incidence they seem happier when more fish were added?

No, you are right. All those schooling/shoaling fish live in groups of hundreds or thousands in the wild; they suffer constant, low level stress if in too small a group (they're bascially 'worried' that all their companions have been eaten by some large predator!)

i'm going to do another water check as soon as i can to establish whats wrong. does anyone on here have any advice such as do i buy new fish to replace ones which die or wait until a lot die before replacing them?

You need to wait until your tank is fully cycled (ie; you've had zero results for ammonia and nitrite for a week, without water changes) before you can think of adding anymore fish.

around 10 years ago my parents kept fish and my dad never did a water change as he wasnt aware of it, occasionally used stress coat and generally just fed the fish and cleaned the tank and his fish lasted years. i cant understand where i'm going wrong!

Fishkeeping years ago was a very different beast to what it is now; the hobby has come on leaps and bounds. For a start, there used to be a lot more of the nitrifying bacteria in the water (ok, I have no proof of that, but I'm convinced that's why people had so much more success with new tanks than we do now) which negated a lot of the need to cycle.
People in those days (I'm one of them! I got my very first fish aged three, in 1973!) had no idea how long fish could live, or how large they could grow; most of our fish were horribly stunted and had very short lives

Hope this helps; do post back if you have more questions, or if I haven't explained things clearly enough

The best way to water change is to syphon the water out with a pipe or gravel cleaner into a bucket (suck up any poop or old food from the bottom too) and then carefully pour the new, dechlorinated water back in.

 

[Rickzayne]

Or plant a few plants and they can eat most of the ammonia ;P

 

[jrcan]

thank you, it helps to hear it from someones mouth (or fingers as this would be) rather than trawling through hundreds of contradictory websites.

from what i was led to believe from the pet store;

1. get the right size tank.
2. fill with tap water (tested at shop to make sure it's suitable) add chemicals which came with the tank to de-chlorinate the water.
3. add the little bottle of bacteria to the water.
4. turn the filter on and leave for 7 days.
5. buy a few fish, tetras are good because theyre hardy and easy.
6. wait before buying more fish and only add a few at a time.

i followed exactly what they said believing that the initial bacteria would set things going then a small amount of fish would give it a proper boost.

im so glad now im getting help as if i do something i'll feel better than doing nothing.

 

[fluttermoth]

You need to have at least 75% of the tank covered in plants for them to make any impression on ammonia levels, and if they start to die off they'll just add even more ammonia. w

What you're suggesting is called a 'silent cycle', and although it does work (and work well) it's not really a method suitable for newcomers to the hobby, I'm afraid.

 

[jrcan]

around 10 years ago my parents kept fish and my dad never did a water change as he wasnt aware of it, occasionally used stress coat and generally just fed the fish and cleaned the tank and his fish lasted years. i cant understand where i'm going wrong!

Fishkeeping years ago was a very different beast to what it is now; the hobby has come on leaps and bounds. For a start, there used to be a lot more of the nitrifying bacteria in the water (ok, I have no proof of that, but I'm convinced that's why people had so much more success with new tanks than we do now) which negated a lot of the need to cycle.
People in those days (I'm one of them! I got my very first fish aged three, in 1973!) had no idea how long fish could live, or how large they could grow; most of our fish were horribly stunted and had very short lives

this is actually quite interesting because originally i wanted a goldfish in a bowl. the pet shop said theyre no longer allowed to sell traditional bowls for goldfishes as over time people have kept them in confined spaces leading to problems with their growth. the type i liked were all frilly and pretty but i was told they were deformed. but then someone else told me that they are deformed due to inbreeding not small spaces. as they say, you learn something new everyday!

 

[fluttermoth]

The frilly, pretty ones are 'fancy' goldfish; they are bred like that (it's a genetic deformity), not stunted; so that at least was good info! Even they can't be kept in bowls as they too grow larger than you probaby think!

 

[laura120381]

hello and welcome to the forum!!

sorry to hear you have been so unlucky so far! some lfs are better than others at giving advice. i find it best to research myself or ask on here as it is always good to remember that your lfs is interested in making a sale whereas on here the main focus is the fish. i was in a large, well known pet store the other day and heard a woman, who was buying a new tank for her son being advised to set it up, wait 3 days then add ALL the fish she wanted!!! aaaarrrrrgggggghhhhh!! so not always the best advice from there...youve come to the right place!!

take a look at the links on cycling given to you by the other members. this is very important. if you can afford it, get your own test kit so you can be sure the water conditions are correct. if possible i would get a chemical (liquid) test kit rather than strips as strips can be inaccurate. these are slightly more expensive but much more reliable and they last for ages!! try ebay!! i would recommend either a Nutrafin Mini Master kit or an API Master kit.

you are not being silly thinking that your fish look lonely or depressed...think we all think like this at times. you are of course quite correct...they probably are a bit lonely. tetras are shoaling fish and do best in groups of 6 or more. however there is not much you can do about this until you get your tank stabalised. try not to worry! keep changing the water and testing it regularly and the levels of ammonia etc will eventually settle. you can get some 'friends' for your fish then!! once you get some water parameters (either from your own tests or by getting the lfs to write them down for you) you could post them on here and we will try and advise you on how to get them stable. you can then let us know what fish you fancy and we will all have a go at helping you choose based on size, temp, compatibility etc

good luck and i hope you don't lose anymore fish. stick with it, read the info on here and follow everyones advice and all should be fine.

L

 

[jrcan]

fluttermoth, that is a huge fish!

i will make the water changes (well when i say me, i mean my other half.i'm likely to do more damage if i try and do it!) and hopefully try and keep you updated! i'll try and get some of the liquid test kits although i fear the strips will have to make do until i find a reasonable priced kit.

we are aiming to one day manage to have neon tetras, guppies, maybe platties if there's room, and eventually what i call a sucker fish, one of those ones which likes to suck things clean! im slightly worried i'll end up with the opposite problem to dead fish however as ive heard how fast guppies can breed!

 

[fluttermoth]

Get all male guppies

Your tank's not big enough for any of the suckermouth catfish, I'm afraid.

Oh, I should say that's not my fish! It's a pic I 'stole' from the net for illustrative purposes; I can't be doing with goldies in tanks; they're too messy and take up too much room; imagine how many neons you could have in that tank!

 

[laura120381]

lol. you are right there!! guppies are definitely good at breeding!! a lot of the time, the fry don't survive so you might be ok. remember if you are getting male and female guppies, get 3 females to every 1 male. also be careful with your 'sucker fish.' many breeds outgrow tanks very quickly!! also they don't actually clean your tank!! they will nibble on algae but unfortunately the tank cleaning is still down to us!!! lol

good luck



ps - since the 'suckermouth' is not going to fit in your tank, have a wee look at corydoras. they also prefer to be kept in groups (4+). they are cute, reasonably easy to keep (depending on the type) and very entertaining to watch!