Im Confused!

[Zsuzsa]

In my case do the plecos cause more harm than help? I got them when i had algea problem.

 

[waterdrop]

Agree with all of Caz's advice. You can take a week or two to think about it but then you'll need to start the process of finding a home for the plecs and loaches, its important both for them and for your tank that you re-home them, they are completely inappropriate for the tank size.

Most urgent thing is that it appears you are still possibly in a fish-in cycle (or the plecs and loaches are overcapacity for your filter) and Caz's advice is correct. Gravel-clean-water-changes (with good technique) are your friend. I'd be changing at least 50% per week when things were normal, but in a fish-in cycling situation you need to be a bit of a detective and use your liquid-reagent based test kit to figure out what percentage and frequency of water changes will get your ammonia and nitrite(NO2) levels down close to zero such that they will not rise above 0.25ppm by the next time you can be home and do a water change if needed. You can change water as soon as an hour after a previous change and often doing a few large ones will get your nitrite down low and then it will be easier to keep up with it. Use conditioner and rough (your hand is good enough) temperature matching with the return water.

Gravel cleaning during water changes, just as Caz has described is one of the great habits that helps the beginner begin to have a good tank. In your case persistence will eventually pay off! Its exactly like she describes: when you're doing gravel cleans regularly and working at it you will begin to notice a clearer tank and less debris when you gravel vac as opposed to when you miss a weekend, in which case it will begin to look worse to you the next time you gravel vac.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Assaye]

112 litre tank, plastic plants , few hiding places, fish ive got is: 2 clown loaches, 2 peppered corydoras, 1 molly, 2f + 1m guppy, 2 gouramis, 2 black phantom tetras, 3 neon tetras, 3 harlequin tetras, 4 penguin tetras and 2 common plecos.

Ive got a Nutrafin test kit, which i use nearly every day.

So should i get rid of the carbon foam or just keep it for the bacteria?

wow! no wonder you're having problems - the tank is WAAAAAY overstocked!

Clown loaches get to a foot long each, and the common plecos between 1 and 2 feet long each, so these are way too big for your tank. Also, plecos are very messy so they will be producing lots of poo, which might explain some of your problems. The rest of them are alright sizes for the tank I think, it's just a case of working out numbers - basically the most efficient rule is 1inch of fish (not including the tail) per gallon of water - your tank is approx 30 gallons, so that gives you 30 inches of adult fish. If you go to the species listings for each fish they will tell you how big each fish will get and you will be able to work it out.

If I were you I would immediately rehome the clown loaches and the plecos - maybe give them to a local fish store, or swap them for store credit or something, but that will definitely help your situation. It sounds horrible, but quite frankly they will die/be extremely unhealthy if they stay in your tank. That, and they are overloading your filter which might be some of the reason why you're having issues with bad water quality.

It's up to you whether you keep the carbon or not... how long ago did you replace the pad? Personally, I'd remove it, but that doesn't mean you have to, or should. If you wanted to you could wait until the mini cycle is over and then remove it, but you might risk another one, on the other hand if you remove it now you may prolong the one you have - it's swings and roundabouts I guess...

Edited to add: if you push your siphon down into the gravel you'll get a huge cloud of muck appear out of the gravel. Once that's cleared, pull the siphon out and push it down somewhere else - do that over all the gravel (except where you have plants/ornaments). It doesn't have to be spotless, but it does have to be done! when you're doing it every week you'll find that the clouds are much less dark/dense than if you don't do it so often. Every now and then (like once or twice a year) you can take all the decor/plastic plants out and clean underneath where they were.

OH NOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh my god! Really??? Im so sorry, i honestly didnt know that! Poor fish!

What if they are still small? Can i not rehome them when they go bigger? Just because they are my favourite fish!

I noticed that the bigger pleco is messy.

I changed the foams on 20 September.

To be honest i always take the plants and ornament out or move them around when i clean the gravel, should i not do that?

It's sad, but I really recommend re-homing them. Even a small plec is a messy little fish, and you might not notice when he needs a bigger tank, because while he might still look small enough for your tank, his growth and health might already be stunted. The sooner you rehome then, the easier it will be on you and the fish.

You will love them more, the longer you have them. Please find a new home for them - somewhere that has a decent sized tank for them or can sell/rehome them fast.

 

[Zsuzsa]

Agree with all of Caz's advice. You can take a week or two to think about it but then you'll need to start the process of finding a home for the plecs and loaches, its important both for them and for your tank that you re-home them, they are completely inappropriate for the tank size.

Most urgent thing is that it appears you are still possibly in a fish-in cycle (or the plecs and loaches are overcapacity for your filter) and Caz's advice is correct. Gravel-clean-water-changes (with good technique) are your friend. I'd be changing at least 50% per week when things were normal, but in a fish-in cycling situation you need to be a bit of a detective and use your liquid-reagent based test kit to figure out what percentage and frequency of water changes will get your ammonia and nitrite(NO2) levels down close to zero such that they will not rise above 0.25ppm by the next time you can be home and do a water change if needed. You can change water as soon as an hour after a previous change and often doing a few large ones will get your nitrite down low and then it will be easier to keep up with it. Use conditioner and rough (your hand is good enough) temperature matching with the return water.

Gravel cleaning during water changes, just as Caz has described is one of the great habits that helps the beginner begin to have a good tank. In your case persistence will eventually pay off! Its exactly like she describes: when you're doing gravel cleans regularly and working at it you will begin to notice a clearer tank and less debris when you gravel vac as opposed to when you miss a weekend, in which case it will begin to look worse to you the next time you gravel vac.

~~waterdrop~~

Thanks ever so much Waterdrop!
I mentioned it to my boyfriend yesterday about the plecos and clown loaches rehoming situation. Im so not happy, but what i have to think of is that these fish in my tank a lot more unhappier. So no question, i must rehome them.
If i ever get a lot bigger tank i will definetely get some clown loaches in it, coz they are my favourite.

I will do a water change in a minute, just want to do the test before.
Thanks for your help again!

112 litre tank, plastic plants , few hiding places, fish ive got is: 2 clown loaches, 2 peppered corydoras, 1 molly, 2f + 1m guppy, 2 gouramis, 2 black phantom tetras, 3 neon tetras, 3 harlequin tetras, 4 penguin tetras and 2 common plecos.

Ive got a Nutrafin test kit, which i use nearly every day.

So should i get rid of the carbon foam or just keep it for the bacteria?

wow! no wonder you're having problems - the tank is WAAAAAY overstocked!

Clown loaches get to a foot long each, and the common plecos between 1 and 2 feet long each, so these are way too big for your tank. Also, plecos are very messy so they will be producing lots of poo, which might explain some of your problems. The rest of them are alright sizes for the tank I think, it's just a case of working out numbers - basically the most efficient rule is 1inch of fish (not including the tail) per gallon of water - your tank is approx 30 gallons, so that gives you 30 inches of adult fish. If you go to the species listings for each fish they will tell you how big each fish will get and you will be able to work it out.

If I were you I would immediately rehome the clown loaches and the plecos - maybe give them to a local fish store, or swap them for store credit or something, but that will definitely help your situation. It sounds horrible, but quite frankly they will die/be extremely unhealthy if they stay in your tank. That, and they are overloading your filter which might be some of the reason why you're having issues with bad water quality.

It's up to you whether you keep the carbon or not... how long ago did you replace the pad? Personally, I'd remove it, but that doesn't mean you have to, or should. If you wanted to you could wait until the mini cycle is over and then remove it, but you might risk another one, on the other hand if you remove it now you may prolong the one you have - it's swings and roundabouts I guess...

Edited to add: if you push your siphon down into the gravel you'll get a huge cloud of muck appear out of the gravel. Once that's cleared, pull the siphon out and push it down somewhere else - do that over all the gravel (except where you have plants/ornaments). It doesn't have to be spotless, but it does have to be done! when you're doing it every week you'll find that the clouds are much less dark/dense than if you don't do it so often. Every now and then (like once or twice a year) you can take all the decor/plastic plants out and clean underneath where they were.

OH NOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh my god! Really??? Im so sorry, i honestly didnt know that! Poor fish!

What if they are still small? Can i not rehome them when they go bigger? Just because they are my favourite fish!

I noticed that the bigger pleco is messy.

I changed the foams on 20 September.

To be honest i always take the plants and ornament out or move them around when i clean the gravel, should i not do that?

It's sad, but I really recommend re-homing them. Even a small plec is a messy little fish, and you might not notice when he needs a bigger tank, because while he might still look small enough for your tank, his growth and health might already be stunted. The sooner you rehome then, the easier it will be on you and the fish.

You will love them more, the longer you have them. Please find a new home for them - somewhere that has a decent sized tank for them or can sell/rehome them fast.

Hi Assaye!
Yes, you are right! Its sad but its true! I already love them a lot.

 

[coldcazzie]

You don't have to apologise - the important thing is that you know now that they are too big for your tank which means you can give them to someone else who can provide the appropriate home for them. And just being without common plecos doesn't mean you have to be without plecos at all - there are species that grow much smaller and would fit well in your tank, assuming that you still have room by the inch/gallon rule, but it's best to get the water stats stable and yourself feeling confident in fish keeping before you add any more fish.

And you're not the first one to make the mistake either - I've had common plecos before without having a clue how big they got, and they all died young. It's one of those annoying things that fish shops happen to sell inappropriate fish as some of their main regular stock - common plecos, clown loaches, neon tetras etc, and not only does it result in many unneccessarily dead fish but a lot of unhappy fish owners who are then asking themselves why their fish that looked perfectly healthy snuffed it for no apparent reason.

 

[Zsuzsa]

I will make sure i will get the water quality right asap, and try to find homes for 4 of my fish. The tank will look so empty without them...

 

[M.R Otter]

good luck with every thing
every body makes mistakes.

 

[Zsuzsa]

Thanks! Hopefully i wont make so much mistakes now that i found this forum. I probably made all the mistakes possible by now.

 

[coldcazzie]

Don't beat yourself up about it - like I said, the important thing is that you're here now and you can start to fix your mistakes! I dread to think how many terrible mistakes I made before I found this place, and I've only been posting here a couple of months! I kept fish for nigh on 5 years before that, so the mountain of mistakes I've made must be vast!

 

[crazychris]

112 litre tank, plastic plants , few hiding places, fish ive got is: 2 clown loaches, 2 peppered corydoras, 1 molly, 2f + 1m guppy, 2 gouramis, 2 black phantom tetras, 3 neon tetras, 3 harlequin tetras, 4 penguin tetras and 2 common plecos.

Ive got a Nutrafin test kit, which i use nearly every day.

So should i get rid of the carbon foam or just keep it for the bacteria?

wow! no wonder you're having problems - the tank is WAAAAAY overstocked!

Clown loaches get to a foot long each, and the common plecos between 1 and 2 feet long each, so these are way too big for your tank. Also, plecos are very messy so they will be producing lots of poo, which might explain some of your problems. The rest of them are alright sizes for the tank I think, it's just a case of working out numbers - basically the most efficient rule is 1inch of fish (not including the tail) per gallon of water - your tank is approx 30 gallons, so that gives you 30 inches of adult fish. If you go to the species listings for each fish they will tell you how big each fish will get and you will be able to work it out.

If I were you I would immediately rehome the clown loaches and the plecos - maybe give them to a local fish store, or swap them for store credit or something, but that will definitely help your situation. It sounds horrible, but quite frankly they will die/be extremely unhealthy if they stay in your tank. That, and they are overloading your filter which might be some of the reason why you're having issues with bad water quality.

I'm going to disagree with Coldcazzie and say that I think you should keep your two clown loaches if you like them. Yes, get rid of the plecs as they're messy. I recently took an 11" one in to the LFS!! Yes, clown loaches can reach 12" in length but how many people actually grow a clown to a foot long? Not many. I have a smaller tank than you, 21 UK gallons and 36"x 15"x 12" and have 2 big 6" clowns in it. I love them and wouldn't get rid of them for anything and can't have a bigger tank. All this about needing huge tanks for clowns seems a bit daft to me if you have just a couple. They're a very popular fish and many people just can't have or don't want 5' or 6' tanks in order to keep clowns. Yes you need a huge tank for a big group of them. Mine are healthy and happy and have grown from 2" but don't seem to be growing any more. How big are yours anyway?
I wouldn't say your tanks is "Way overstocked" as you have mainly smallish fish. It certainly won't be if you take your plecs to the lfs. What type of gourami do you have?

 

[waterdrop]

I don't think its a question of whether the animal will survive. You can put a goldfish in a goldfish bowl. You can put a chicken or pig in a cage that touches its sides.

We all know that an aquarium is not a fully natural environment but there's an important question of where to draw the line in terms of both at what point the physical barriers will have an impact on tissue and organ growth and at what points the barrier crosses into a volume that triggers the natural stress responses of the particular species. In other words, you want your fish to be able to be vibrant, happy in its situation and showing its best colors and signs of this comfort, rather than continuously exhibiting a set of stress behaviors.

Over the years ichthyologists have cataloged these stess responses and hobbyists, although usually not as knowledgeable about it probably, have developed a feel and various sets of practical experience pertaining to them. It might be as subtle as a fish swimming in some constant pattern rather than stopping and changing its patterns. Or it might be as blatant as a dissection revealing huge organs that are not fitting within the developed size of the stunted body of the fish.

Our "rules of thumb" will probably never be completely in harmony with nature's reality for a given species but as you gain years in the hobby, most people usually realize that these understandings are at least a minimal start on humans being able to claim a reasonable attempt at humane treatment of the animals we keep in captivity.

~~waterdrop~~