I'm Absolutely Livid - Nature Has No Morals!

[Verminator89]

My dempseys had fry a little over a week ago and they hatched. There were maybe 60-70 fry and i decided to split them into two groups. One group of roughly half stayed with the mother in the tank and the other half i put in a molly breeding trap to feed. Now at the time i had a divider in the tank and the female and ALL the fry in their various places were on this one side (50% of the tank). The male and my other fish, 3 angels, 3 boesemanis and 4 SAEs were on the other side out the way.

Here is the divider i DIYed

Notice the bigger holes where i clipped out the cross-joining to allow swimming holes for smaller fish to pass, but preventing bigger fish to pass through.


The divider is a big plastic sheet with holes in, i'd cut a few bigger holes into it to allow 3 juvi female dempseys to swim freely through and not allow my male through when i had 3 for him to pick a mate from. So i used this divider to separate the mum and fry from the threats, being the angels and male dempsey. The boesemani's and SAE's have been swimming through freely and not bothering the fry.

First incident
The female decided she wanted to eat her young in the tank with her, and so i was left with approx 30 fry in the breeding trap. Now i was a little disappointed with this, but life goes on, i figured i had 30 or so fry still that i could raise so i was optimistic. So i decided to move the divider. I moved the fry in the trap to the far left of the tank and placed it flat against the glass with the divider keeping it plush and firm. So the fry had about a 4" section at the end of the tank inwhich they were in the trap. Now the SAE's and boesemani's kept swimming through these holes still which wasnt a problem.

Second incident
The smallest of my angels has now decided he can fit through these holes also. I thought nothing of it. I caught him in my hand and placed him back in his big side of the tank away from the fry. Thats how small the space is with the fry that i can place my hand in and just pick this fish up because he has nowhere to go, and its too small for a net to fit. I really should have blocked these holes off, but i thought nothing of it. So i've just gone downstairs now and again this angel is swimming in a 16" long by 4" wide mini section of tank underneath the molly breeding trap containing my fry. On closer inspection there are suddenly only 13 fry.

OH MY GOD!

Not a happy camper right now, my stupid angel has sucked them through the water flow slits on the side of the trap. I'm livid Stupid stupid stupid angel. I can't believe it. I suppose ultimately i have myself to blame for not blocking the holes off, and i've payed the price. I'm taking the positive that i still have fry left, but from an exstatic 70 odd fry through two disasters i'm down to 13. Gutted doesnt even describe how i'm feeling right now. I'm sooooooo tempted to throw my angel in a punishment tank on his own, but thats just childish.

James

 

[Carlovel1]

Im sorry for your 57 losses
Angelfish are funny creatures
Still, 13 is still lots of babies

 

[Verminator89]

Yes, but you can't help but think of the 57 that are no longer to be that could have been. Certainly 30 at the least could have been, but for an absolutely moronic angel that certainly took advantage of a short fall. I'd even fed them already this morning so every fish had a fat gut. And the greedy blighter was still determined to have some fry as a snack.

 

[kizno1]

Thats a shame mate. If im honest though your lucky to get any fry from a cichlids first spawn most will eat them the first few times. Do you have another spare tank you could put the fry left in? that or try and get a divider with alot smaller holes tat the fry cant pass through. The plastic breeding traps are a pain ive had other fish suck fry through the gaps and fish jump in eat the fry and jump out. Maybe one of the net ones that hang on the side of the tank would be better thats what i use now.

 

[Verminator89]

This is there 4th attempt Kizno

1st time eggs werent fertile
2nd time eggs were fertile but my clown loach ate them (sold the loach to Star4)
3rd time they hatched, but mother ate them after 2 days before they got to free swimming
4th time they got to free swimming, so i split the group (fearing something would happen, it did)

And now my angel has sinned. lol

 

[kizno1]

This is there 4th attempt Kizno

Well maybe there just a little bit slow if you get what i mean . It can take a few goes to get it right but ones they do sure you will get some great fry. What will the fry be like from a EBJD X JD?

 

[Verminator89]

They've done all i want them to do. Alls i want them to do is spawn (takes 3 days to hatch), then raise the fry to free swimming (again 3 days) then i shall remove them and do the rest myself. I'm just infuriated my angel has thwarted my plans. It makes it worse because i would have put them in my 2ft, however it currently has 13 platy fry (lol 13, typical). but they are somewhat bigger than the dempseys at the moment and they'd see them as snacks. It just seems like i'm doomed to fail on this spawn, kinda gutting really.

To answer your question on the dempsey fry i'll simplify the science. It will roughly equate to 25% EB gene, 25% regular JD gene and 50% mixed. Thats the simply answer, it all depends on what genes are passed on and natural selection ect

 

[kizno1]

They've done all i want them to do. Alls i want them to do is spawn (takes 3 days to hatch), then raise the fry to free swimming (again 3 days) then i shall remove them and do the rest myself. I'm just infuriated my angel has thwarted my plans. It makes it worse because i would have put them in my 2ft, however it currently has 13 platy fry (lol 13, typical). but they are somewhat bigger than the dempseys at the moment and they'd see them as snacks. It just seems like i'm doomed to fail on this spawn, kinda gutting really.

To answer your question on the dempsey fry i'll simplify the science. It will roughly equate to 25% EB gene, 25% regular JD gene and 50% mixed. Thats the simply answer, it all depends on what genes are passed on and natural selection ect

I can see why your annoyed but its not really the angels fault it saw the chance to get food and it did thats how they survive.

Oh fair enough i wasnt sure it id would just be they look more of a mix so like a jd but more colourful but not as colourful as a EBJD. I saw a little EBJD yesterday for the first time they really are stunning.

 

[Verminator89]

Oh i know its not the angels fault. As i mentione di really aught to have blocked the holes the first time the angel got in there, but i thought it was a curiousity thing more than an opertunistic attack. I learnt the hard way and payed for my naivity for sure.

Many people are under the assumption that you breed two EBJD to get EB fry - WRONG. If you breed two EBJD you will get normal fry. Why i have no idea, but its the way it goes. Breeding the EB gene is very hard and requires a normal JD and an EBJD - which i have. I'm on the first steps to learning this art and i have a lifetime to learn it. My passion is Jack Dempseys, and its my chosen path in fish keeping to breed these wonderfull fish, for both the regular strain and the EB. As i said to breed them you need one of each and even then out of 100 fry you could get 25 true EBJD's, taking out fatality loss and those who just won't survive you could end up with very few indeed. So its tough to say the least, but a challenge i intend to master

 

[kizno1]

Oh fair enough. Thats quite weird i always thout 2 EBJD would have EB babies. Soinds goo hope it all works out for you in the end sure you will get it right soon and have some lovely fry from the stunning male you have.

 

[Verminator89]

Yer fingers crossed aye. Its annoying also that they couldnt have started this spwning cycle in about a month when i have my new custom tank set-up just for the two of them and the 4 SAE's. The angels and boesemani's will either be sold or stay in my 180L which will go back in my bedroom when the new tank arrives (should be any day now). Alas, it is what is it and you do what you do to soldier on

 

[coldcazzie]

And now my angel has sinned. lol

that's such a funny way of saying it, you reminded me of my friend telling me about someone's dog who had been rehomed because it "sinned" and when she enquired about what they meant by "sinned" it turned out the dog had eaten their pet parrot!!!

I can see why your annoyed but its not really the angels fault it saw the chance to get food and it did thats how they survive.

To be fair, Angels are greedy sods - if they can eat it, they will. Having been recently fed makes absolutely no difference to an angelfish! Have learned this the hard way also

Hope your remaining 13 fry make it to adulthood!

 

[kizno1]

Yer fingers crossed aye. Its annoying also that they couldnt have started this spwning cycle in about a month when i have my new custom tank set-up just for the two of them and the 4 SAE's. The angels and boesemani's will either be sold or stay in my 180L which will go back in my bedroom when the new tank arrives (should be any day now). Alas, it is what is it and you do what you do to soldier on

Things always seem to work like that just when you dont want them to they will. Same as my BNs they should be going in the new tank in a few weeks and im pretty sure there going to spawn again in the next few days.Bet they will love having that to them self. Are you going to keep the fry in with the adults or separate them? If you leave them with the adults you will have to watch out for the males because ones the fry get to a cm or 2 if the male wants to breed again he will kill the fry so the female will breed.

 

[Verminator89]

Yes i know the ins and outs of fish breeding lol. I have absolutely no intention of the fry ever been in the same tank with the mum again. I have 3 tanks currently running. x2 70L and a 180L, i also have x2 60L sitting empty and also on odd vase shaped thing sitting useless currently. So there are options for emergency set-ups. Currently as it is the fry shall remain in the molly trap untill they get a little bit bigger. my order of Decapsulated Brine Shrimp arrived today, albeit to feed substantially less fry now but its arrived. So untill they grow a little they will be as they are, then i shall move them into the 70L with platy fry in, with the platy fry moving back into another 70L with their mum. Its going to be a fun month of transfering tanks and tankmates alike around

And now my angel has sinned. lol

that's such a funny way of saying it, you reminded me of my friend telling me about someone's dog who had been rehomed because it "sinned" and when she enquired about what they meant by "sinned" it turned out the dog had eaten their pet parrot!!!

Indeed, a break from the 'standard' way of describing things often enlightens the situation .