I Would Like To Express My Gratitude!

[jonchall]

Hello everyone,

I would like to deeply and genuinely thank not only the people who run this site, but also the many knowledgeable fishkeeping members here that take the time to help those less experienced in this wonderful hobby!

A month ago, I considered myself a fairly knowledgeable fishkeeper. Although I had not kept any fish in over 15 years, when I was into this hobby I was quite good at it, and over the years probably kept a total of 15 or so tanks of various sizes. Back then, there was no such thing as "fishless cycling," there was only the proper way of "fish in" cycling--it was all I knew, all my fishkeeping friends knew, and all the LFS gurus knew--it was just the way it was done. Our network then was pencil, paper, and phone calls--many, MANY phone calls! Based upon this prior knowledge and my wife finally getting excited after seeing the many different kinds of fish one could keep, we purchased a 50 gallon tank with all the trimmings, filled it, conditioned the water, let it run for a few days to settle (old school habit), tested all the water parameters, and (upon a 0.0ppm reading of ammonia and nitrites) purchased a small bioload of stock. This is my current "fish in" cycle I'm going through at the moment, which is going very well so far.

Then it hit me. I should check the Internet--I'm sure there are some good sites available for advice and suggestions. After all, it had been over 15 years since I'd kept a tank, so there must be some new info I could put to use. Well, well, well--I went from advanced fishkeeper to newbie in 10 seconds flat! Fishless cycling? What? You mean canister filters aren't just for saltwater tanks anymore? (I'm sure people used canisters for freshwater then, but most commonly I always noticed people had the HoBs--including myself--with an extra sponge filter here and there--I usually had both, and tried to keep my HoBs at 7x or higher).

So, among all of the great advice/opinions/suggestions/knowledge I've read and been given here, I now have a 36 gallon in a "fishless cycle" and MTS is beginning to set in I have also been given some great advice for continuing my "fish in" cycle (thanks waterdrop), and have read much additional info regarding it as well (thanks EVERYONE else)!

Well, that's it. I just wanted to thank everyone for donating their time and expertise to help make this hobby one that is not only enjoyable for the people who undertake it, but also greatly beneficial for the pets we choose to keep! I am truly glad I came across this site--it has provided me with more help and inspiration than I could have ever imagined! I plan to be here for a long time, and once I gain enough experience (again) in this hobby, I hope that I too can help provide newcomers to this hobby with much needed advice and suggestions.

THANK YOU ALL!

Jon

 

[Geoff1991]

Wow, its always nice to see someone thanking the forum. Welcome back to the hobby, there are a lot of "re-beginners" around here (like waterdrop for instance) and its always cool to hear about how things were done before i was born.

Just out of interest, what fish have you got in the fish-in cycle?

 

[Inchworm]

Hi jonchall

We really appreciate it when our members take the time to thank those who have helped them. I'll be looking forward to seeing your posts regularly around here.

It also sounds like you're ready for the next step in the hobby and that is joining an aquarium club. The one in your area is the Raleigh Aquarium Society. It's a great way to make new friends and learn even more about fishkeeping.

 

[sara19]

Well you said it, i only joined the other day after many attempts to get help from other forums, honestly i posted on a certain site and not one person replied after 3 days of silence i fount this place, and i am so happy!
The people here really know what there talking about and to add ive gained knowledge and passed it on to others too its really good to have foutn a place like this. so id say good on you! for letting not only the admin but also the people that freely give you there knowledge.
I think il join in ...
Thank you very much everyone

 

[Harlequins]

Hear Hear

I agree this forum is fab,very good advice,and it makes the world a better place when fish are put in a proper cycled tank,which i learnt the hard way by doing a fish in cycle,Luckily i didn't lose any and wished i found this place first,but now i'm here and learning!

THANK YOU EVERYONE !!!!

 

[jonchall]

Hi Geoff and thanks for the welcome!

Just out of interest, what fish have you got in the fish-in cycle?

Right now I have:
1 Green Terror ~2"
1 Blood Parrot ~2.5"
5 Giant Danios ~1.5" to 2"

Again, due to my prior and much outdated knowledge/experience as well as advice from what used to be a very reputable and knowledgeable LFS 15-20 years ago, my first inhabitants in the tank were two Blood Parrots and two Green Terrors--BPs were about 1.75"-2" and GTs were about 1.5". However, after lurking on this forum for many hours and finally posting and getting some extremely good advice, one of the GTs and one of the BPs were returned to the fish store, and a 36 gallon was purchased to rehome the BP once it has been fishless cycled. I know the 36 gallon is pushing the size requirement for the BP, but we live in an apartment and space is limited commodity. We will be moving to a house when our lease is up in nine months, and due to MTS we plan on buying a bigger home for the BP at that time. The Giant Danios were added as dithers for what will be the GTs tank. So far I have had 0.0ppm ammonia, 0.00ppm nitrites, and 0.0ppm nitrates for the last 16 days in this tank. I feel very fortunate to have these levels right now, but they also perplex me and I am expecting a spike anytime now--I test twice daily.

Jon

Hi jonchall

We really appreciate it when our members take the time to thank those who have helped them. I'll be looking forward to seeing your posts regularly around here.

It also sounds like you're ready for the next step in the hobby and that is joining an aquarium club. The one in your area is the Raleigh Aquarium Society. It's a great way to make new friends and learn even more about fishkeeping.

Thanks for the warm welcome Inchworm! Also, thanks very much for that link--I will be checking into that immediately!

 

[arobinson1984]

I'm VERY surprised you aren't seeing any ammonia after 16 days.

Are you performing large daily water changes to keep it at 0 or has it never risen?

If it hasnt risen, I would check to see if your filter contains zeolite because if it has, it will be stopping your tank from cycling

Also, what sort of testing kit are you using? a liquid based test kit is recommended, the test strips are inaccurate

Welcome to the forum by the way

Andy

 

[ZoddyZod]

Well you said it, i only joined the other day after many attempts to get help from other forums, honestly i posted on a certain site and not one person replied after 3 days of silence i fount this place, and i am so happy!
The people here really know what there talking about and to add ive gained knowledge and passed it on to others too its really good to have foutn a place like this. so id say good on you! for letting not only the admin but also the people that freely give you there knowledge.
I think il join in ...
Thank you very much everyone

Could not agree with you more. Lots of people on here very willing to share knowledge and answer questions, even if they've probably been asked exactly the same several times before.

 

[jonchall]

I'm VERY surprised you aren't seeing any ammonia after 16 days.

You aren't the only one! I have another topic dealing with this in much greater detail, but suffice it to say I'm quite perplexed by this.

Are you performing large daily water changes to keep it at 0 or has it never risen?

I have yet to perform a water change--mostly for fear of disrupting my ammonia level.

If it hasnt risen, I would check to see if your filter contains zeolite because if it has, it will be stopping your tank from cycling

I am now becoming less perplexed! This would make perfect sense, as nothing else does. As I stated in my other topic, "unless I have found a new strain of magical fish that excrete pristene water, they must be producing some level of ammonia and that ammonia has to go somewhere right?"

I have 2 Whisper EX45 HoB filters which originally contained the carbon filter inserts that came with them. I have since swapped one of those filter inserts with a sort of DIY poly sponge insert that I cut out of a pond filter pad. I have left the other one alone in case it had built up some bacteria, but I planned on changing that out as well in a couple of weeks. I have looked quite a bit online (as well as on the box of replacement filters) and see no mention of zeolite. The box simply states:
1. Coarse layer - Removes larger particulates.
2. Activated Carbon - Rapidly removes odor, discoloration, impurities and toxins leaving your water clear, healthy and polished.
3. Multi-density layer - Specially designed to capture a full range of particulates giving you unmatched water clarity.

Your mention of zeolite makes complete sense though, and the filter packs may contain that and just don't make mention of it. If so, I may have to formulate a new strategy now for the best possible health of my fish. Does the zeolite have any negative qualities besides the blatantly obvious one of prohibiting the cycle?

Also, what sort of testing kit are you using? a liquid based test kit is recommended, the test strips are inaccurate

I am using the liquid API Freshwater Master Test Kit

Welcome to the forum by the way

Thanks Andy, and thank you for your insight!

 

[arobinson1984]

The thing with zeolite is that it absorbs ammonia, therefore not leaving any ammonia for the cycle to perform. Another problem with zeolite is that when all the zeolite becomes "used up" it can no longer absorb ammonia and because the tank wont have the beneficial bacteria required to convert the ammonia, it would just build up.

Now technically you can run a tank with never cycling it by using zeolite although its not recommend for many reasons such as, there is no warning when the zeolite is going to be used up meaning in the matter of a day or 2 you could find that ammonia levels have rocketed, secondly obviously is the price of replacing the zeolite all the time compared to a cycled tank where the beneficial bacteria dont cost you anything.

Looking at your explanation of the filter, it doesnt seem that there is any zeolite present, unless like you say it isnt mentioned. I will have a dig around and try confirm whether or not that filter system does indeed contain zeolite or not, I just thought it was worth mentioning as that was the first obvious thing that sprung to mind after hearing you havent had an ammonia reading after 16 days.

Congrats on the test kit as well by the way, great choice, I use the same

Edit: Do any of the two filters contain either the carbon insert or biobags? Some carbon inserts can contain zeolite in them so I would recommending any carbon inserts or biobags from both filters leaving just the coarse media and the fine media in each, these are all that are required for the cycle. See if that makes a difference.

Andy

 

[jonchall]

Thanks Andy.

After reading your reply, I dug a little further into the forum and found a lengthy discussion on zeolite. I in no way plan on using zeolite for an extended period, but this just might be the helping hand I need to keep my fish healthy until my 36 gallon has finished its fishless cycle. I could then transfer the fish to that tank until I could get the 50 gallon cycled, and transfer the fish that will stay in the 50 gallon back to it. I hate to stress them with the moves, but it seems like that would be much better on them than enduring ammonia and nitrite spikes in a fish in cycle.

Now, if you happen to find out that these filter pack do not contain zeolite, I will continue to be perplexed!

Thanks again,

Jon

 

[arobinson1984]

Do any of the two filters contain either the carbon insert or biobags? Some carbon inserts can contain zeolite in them according to a search on the internet (they are usually sold as 2 seperate things) so I would recommend removing any carbon inserts or biobags from both filters leaving just the coarse media and the fine media in each, these are all that are required for the cycle. See if that makes a difference.

Alternatively you could as mentioned deliberately put some zeolite in there for the time being to keep the tank healthy until the fishless cycle has finished, transfer the fish and then perform a fishless cycle on the problem tank. If you choose this method I would certainly recommend testing the tank both morning and night every day so you spot that if the zeolite becomes "used up" as early as possible and obviously keep some spare zeolite in stock.

Andy

 

[jonchall]

The filters are designed to hold filter packs inside plastic frames like this (mine is the blue one):

The frame snaps open so you can insert the filter packs:

The only type of filter packs they sell (as far as I could find) are the carbon ones in the picture. I have one filter running with that type of filter pack in it. I discarded the other filter pack 6 days ago and cut out a piece of coarse, poly pond filter the same size and shape as the filter pack and put that in the frame. I thought that would provide a much more durable media for the bacteria to grow on. I think I will leave the other carbon filter pack in until I get the Python gravel vac I ordered (should be here Monday) and have a chance to give the gravel a thorough cleaning. Also going to clean the algae off the plastic plants, lava rock, and poly resin stump I have in there and probably add a bit of Java Moss. I am also going to add a large sponge filter for additional filtration and bacterial surface space. After all of this settles, I'll then replace the other carbon pack like I did the previous one and keep a VERY close eye on the levels--if they take a big jump, I'll stick the carbon (and perhaps zeolite) back in and wait for the other tank to finish cycling.

In the fish in tank, I check the ammonia levels twice a day and the nitrite (just in case) once a day. I check nitrates (again, just in case) every four days or so. I also have a four pack (just like in the picture) of extra cartridges in case the other stops performing. Hopefully all will go well, but the health of my fish is my main concern.

Thanks again for your input Andy!

 

[OldMan47]

Yep, you are right. Mine have the green frames because I am running them on a small tank. One actually doesn't sit all the way down on the tank frame because the inlet tube is longer than the tank is deep. I don't think there is any zeolite in those and the carbon is more for being able to say you have some than for doing any good. I rinse my cartridges by removing them from the frame and then squeezing them out 4 or 5 times until the rinse water doesn't get noticeably dirtier with each squeeze. Then the cartridge gets popped back into the frame for another month or more. I completely ignore the chemical timers these are packed with. It makes a nice sales gimmick but I am not buying their filters constantly anyway.

 

[jonchall]

Yeah, I totally ignore the timer gimmicks as well. Well, if there is no zeolite in them, then I am baffled. Maybe I did find a new strain of magical fish that excrete pristene water?!?