I Think My Large Goldfish Are Sick, Can You Help?

[LRPRESTO]

Hi everyone! I think I have a problem in my 45 gallon tank. I have three big goldfish in the tank and all three have been just hanging out in the bottom of the tank for the last day or so. I see no signs of anything external on them. They haven't wanted to eat yesterday or today at all. I have been having a green water problem in the tank for a while now that I have been using some algae remover for and I haven't been using the light much. I have also been having a hard time keeping the ammonia and nitrate levels down. I have a filtration system in it that is for tanks up to 60 gallons and an aerator too. I noticed one of the fish swimming in a crazy way and hitting the side of the glass , flipping over and swimming straight up and down (sometimes tail up, sometimes tail down) the other two have been hiding in the back of the tank. I did a 25 gallon water change to see if it would help at all and I noticed two of the fish have perked up and are swimming around again. One of the fish that has perked up I was sure wasn't going to make it through the last hour or so. (He was flipping upside down and convulsing at one point!he was so bad he actually let me hold him in the tank for a while) The other fish is swimming mouth down at times and won't come out of the fake plant on the back of the tank. I checked my levels and the ammonia is at 0.25, Nitrate 5.0, Nitrite 0, and PH about 7.6. They were much worse before the water change though! Am I missing something here? Any idea why the one fish is still looking so bad? Thanks!

 

[*Fishkies*]

Your tank has not fully cycled and there may be to much fish per gallon.
What kind of goldfish do you have and how big?
You will need to daily water changes, because that nitrate needs to come down.

 

[LRPRESTO]

I cycled it for a month before adding fish and have had them for three months. How long does it take to cycle the tank? Shouldn't it be ok by now?

 

[GoldLenny]

This would have been better in the Cold Water fish section since goldfish are not tropical fish.

Running the tank for a month is not considered "cycling" the tank. Cycling refers to "The Nitrogen Cycle"... a biological and chemical process that happens in nature and something we must do to prepare our tanks to make them safe for fish. Cycling with goldfish is tough to do because of the huge amounts of ammonia that they put out. Read this thread and any embedded links on cycling so you will understand this process. It is CRITICAL to know this. http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=175355

If you had done things perfectly, you would probably be cycled by now but you probably made some mistakes which is causing you problems. Go to my blog in my sig and read the article (link on right side) on filter cleaning and maintenance so you do not fall into this trap of throwing away or over-cleaning your filters and trashing your nitrogen cycle every time you do. The bulk of the good nitrifying bacteria live in your filter media.

How big are our three goldfish. Fancy goldfish grow to body lengths of 6-8" and as big around and long-bodied grow to 12"-24"... so I'm not sure if you mean BIG or just what seems to be big to you.

Nitrates are the last phase of the nitrogen cycle. They are only dangerous at very high levels. As long as they stay below 40ppm, you are OK. Ammonia and Nitrites are toxic at much lower levels.

With a stable pH of 7.6, you can have up to 1ppm of ammonia without danger. If you add 1/8th teaspoon of salt to your tank, that will protect your fish from up to 2ppm of nitrites when you get them. Whenever you do a 25% PWC (partial water change), add the appropriate amount of salt (1/32nd of a teaspoon.. just a pinch) back to the tank. You may have to do daily or even twice daily 25% PWC's to keep things safe for your fish.

This is one of the reasons many fishkeepers stress "Fishless Cycling" http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=113861 as it prepares your tank and makes it safe for the addition of fish without the fish having to go through the arduous process.

If you have questions about your goldfish in the future, come on over to the Cold Water forum at http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showforum=18

One last note... you will need more filtration. Goldfish need around 10X filtration so a 45G tank would need 450gph of filtration. A filter for a 60G tropical tank would probably only move 1/2 that amount. Most, if not all of us goldfish keepers use two filter systems on our tanks.

 

[LRPRESTO]

This is very, very helpful (and I wish I had known it before!) I guess I didn't understand the meaning of "fishless cycling" I thought I was doing it right but I guess not. I'm not sure this is the worst of my problems Right now (or maybe it is?) I lost one of my goldfish today. The fish are about four or five inches (Just body not fin length) long and a couple inch around. One is a lion head and the other is the Perl (golf ball looking kind) the one that died was a classic looking goldfish. The strange thing is when I pulled it out, its one eye was filled with blood and the other had a small spot of blood in it. It didn't have that last night when I was checking it out. Any ideas what is going on here? I checked my levels today and the ammonia is at 0.25, nitrates 5.0, nitrites 0 and PH 7.6. Do you really think it is just that is wasn't cycled right or do I have something more going on here? Thanks for your time! Lisa

 

[LRPRESTO]

Today I did a 20 gallon water change and notice that the lion head has some white spots on his tail fin (just three of them) and a spot in the middle of his head. THe spots look more like littie tears than anything else. He swims kind of sporadicly around the tank then sits at the bottom for a while. He is still eating and going up for air occasionally. I noticed a few of his scales seem to be missing too. The other fish looks fine and seems to be acting normally. Anyone have any ideas as to what I should do here? ANY help is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[*Fishkies*]

Well it's okay for some scales to missing. However does the spots where he lost the scales look red or irrated or does he scratch at all?
Do the white spots look like ich? Or like salt sprinkled?

 

[Brette]

Today I did a 20 gallon water change and notice that the lion head has some white spots on his tail fin (just three of them) and a spot in the middle of his head. THe spots look more like littie tears than anything else. He swims kind of sporadicly around the tank then sits at the bottom for a while. He is still eating and going up for air occasionally. I noticed a few of his scales seem to be missing too. The other fish looks fine and seems to be acting normally. Anyone have any ideas as to what I should do here? ANY help is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Try some melaflex for the spots. You'll have to remove the carbon if you have any in your filter for a few days. Does it look like fungus?

I've had wide bodied goldfish too and I know how difficult they can be. The biggest problem is how much room they need and how much waste they produce. Messy, messy buggers but they're so cute. Keep doing frequent water changes, every few days and hopefully they'll bounce back.

 

[LRPRESTO]

Quote**Well it's okay for some scales to missing. However does the spots where he lost the scales look red or irrated or does he scratch at all?
Do the white spots look like ich? Or like salt sprinkled? **

It doesn't look like ich. The spot on his head just looks like maybe a scratch but the ones on his tail fin look more cottony I guess. They are on the edges of his tail not in the middle that I can see but he will be swimming along then wiggle really fast. (like he is jumpy?) He seems to want to go into the flow of the water from the fillter too. I can stick some melafix in there if you think it will help. THanks guys! (Do you know how to tell if they are boys or girls?)

 

[Sarah5098]

Your tank has not fully cycled and there may be to much fish per gallon.
What kind of goldfish do you have and how big?
You will need to daily water changes, because that nitrate needs to come down.

I thought that a 5 nitrAte level is fine. I have that in my tap water! Really confused now.... Dangerous levels are around 40+ right?