I just seen a shocking video

[clutterydrawer]

if fish dont feel pain, why can't we just mistreat them at will? why can't we, for example, behead them if we get bored of them, and go and get some new ones?

 

[Ed4567]

Interesting arguement. Just to reiterate a couple of the above posts, surely the logical conclusion to the 'fish do not feel a consious pain' arguement, is that we have no obligation to their continued well-being and care beyond that nessassary for our own amusement and therefore a large proportion of the posts on this forum are unnessasary; e.g. why bother with fishless cycling when you can just get new fish if the ones you have die.

Ed
ps. It's not my opinion this is right just speaking hypothetically

 

[Sorrell]

As I have stated I took Dr. Rose's clas and he makes a very compelling argument. However, I don't think that gives us any right whatsoever to mistreat our fish. Actually, I believe it imposes a greater responsibilty as caretakers to do everything we can in their best interest. No matter what emotions they can or can't experience, they are living things and we need to treat them as such. Personally, I don't see any of my fish as replaceable

 

[Teelie]

if fish dont feel pain, why can't we just mistreat them at will? why can't we, for example, behead them if we get bored of them, and go and get some new ones?

They sense pain, but don't feel it as I said before which should be enough reason not to mistreat them, though one could argue just about anything including murder if you took certain details and played with them.

My point originally was agreeing with whoever said fish did not feel pain and also that making fish out to be more intelligent or capable than they are only clouds the issue.

I can say, "Yes, why not torture them?" with the facts but there is also someone else pointed out, a moral reason not to torture animals. However, morals are not so cut and dry as scientific fact. They aren't solid, definable actions so everyone has their own interpetation of appropriate versus not appropriate and how wrong one thing is compared to another.

 

[Ed4567]

Ok but even if you value their lives, if they do not feel pain or stress then why should we be concerned by a number of other things most people on here find unacceptable?e.g. vastly overstocked tanks, schooling fish kept on their own etc.

Edit: post written before Teelie's response.

 

[Teelie]

If you're referring to me, I already answered that in the last part of my post.

 

[Ed4567]

My last post was written before your response.

 

[Teelie]

I hate when that happens. It's already happened to me once today.

 

[Synirr]

However, morals are not so cut and dry as scientific fact...

Considering all the debate and disagreement that goes on in the scientific community, I'm not sure I'd say that science is cut and dry, either

 

[endparenthesis]

In case anyone's interested in the threads about this that have come before:

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=44053
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=55786

 

[zebadie]

well the issue of fish dont feel pain lmao so funny not going into tht but personally i wouldnt hav done it feed the oscar to them tht is the guy who done it has no respect for the fish he keeps i not saying tht i dont agree with feeder fish but thts different in respect tht u havent nurtured those fish watched them grow seen its charcter ,well thts only me hehe

 

[David]

Actually, I believe it imposes a greater responsibilty as caretakers to do everything we can in their best interest. No matter what emotions they can or can't experience, they are living things and we need to treat them as such. Personally, I don't see any of my fish as replaceable

I agree 110%. Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Teelie]

However, morals are not so cut and dry as scientific fact...

Considering all the debate and disagreement that goes on in the scientific community, I'm not sure I'd say that science is cut and dry, either

It is, it's just the interpetations that are hard to get straight. The fact people tend to put in their moral and ethical opinions on some results doesn't help either.

 

[endparenthesis]

And debate and disagreement has to occur before something is proven correct. That's how things get validated.

 

[Teelie]

Even then, it's not always accepted. There are for instance people who insist the earth is flat, we never went to the moon and the stars aren't billions or trillions of years old.