I just seen a shocking video

[cometcattle]

I just read the posts on the forum where it is posted. Most people seem to condone it.

 

[Sorrell]

Somehow, I knew this would be convienently ignored. What the heck, let's repost so no one can claim to have missed it twice.

http/www.cotrout.org/do_fish_feel_pain.htm

And I also see there are people still trying to grasp that the difference between feeding an Oscar to Pirhana is no different than feeding guppies to an Oscar, or rabbits and mice to snakes and other reptiles, or feeding live food to your fish is neglible...

I was actually in Dr. Rose's class while he did this research. The simplest way that I can put it is into terms regarding humans. When you touch a hot stove you instinctively jerk your hand away before you even realize you have been burned. It is later that you realize you have pain in your hand.

Fish have pain (the jerk) but they don't experience it (the burn).

I personally have a problem with this morally, and I think it's a little silly to compare it to anything on the discovery channel. Maybe I missed the episode where the piranhas feasted on Oscars

 

[Synirr]

Maybe I missed the episode where the piranhas feasted on Oscars

Haha, me too.
I dunno about whether or not I define pain as simply the emotional aspect of it, though, which is where I guess I disagree with Teelie. I think it's possible for a human to experience unpleasant stimuli without it being emotionally distressful, but that doesn't make it any less unpleasant.

 

[Teelie]

I said they sensed pain, sensing pain is not feeling it. Senses are just that, a way to interpet the environment and the physical condition of the body. Feeling pain is a psychological and mental capacity which fish lack and the thing that is being imposed on fish where it's something they've never been proven to do. So far no one has shown an emotional or mental capability in fish to feel pain and be affected by it outside of instinct and physical reactions.

How those who condone feeders but condemn feeding pirhana in the same way justify it is beyond me. There's no difference in the two, just in the size of the "feeder fish" itself.

 

[Sorrell]

Teelie that is exactly what we were taught They do not have the mental capability to make the connection between the reflex and the reason for it.

 

[Teelie]

So you should know my reasoning for finding it rediculous to humanize fish with a capability they have so far been shown to be incapable of. I don't like to see fish "suffer" either but at the same time I'm realistic that the fish doesn't suffer or feel distress in any remote way humans do. Obviously if a fish can be put out of distress, I do it but otherwise I don't look for ways to humanize them into something they're not.

 

[Sorrell]

Yes, I agree with you. I have seen fish who are very ill or injured and I definately believe that they are distressed. I don't think they feel pain in the same capacity as other animals do.

I have to admit when I took his class, I was probably the biggest skeptic in there. Having seen his research and sat in his lectures, I have seen the light

I bought a loveseat and two chairs from him too and I sit on them while I watch my 29

 

[Teelie]

He must be a good speaker if he convinced you to buy furniture from him too.

 

[David]

IMO this whole topic has nothing to do with the fish, or humanizing them. It has to do with the person that did this to the fish, and what the psychological and moral justification behind it is. Does the fact that fish do not have the cranial capacity to comprehend physical pain truly justify taking pleasure in watching them suffer? I think not.

 

[fishdudein]

Finally, a good healthy discussion with no name calling or hurt feelings, etc!!!

My 2 cents: Although it would not be un-natural in the fishes native habitat for this scenario to occur, and it would be fascinating to watch under those circumstances, there is something just a bit weird about throwing a healthy oscar to a group of piranha and video taping it being torn apart. A healthy oscar in the wild would most likely have evaded the piranha. The piranha would have been filling their niche in the food chain by feeding on a sick or weak oscar. Any conscientious fishkeeper would have found some other means of getting rid of an unwanted oscar. While we may view it as the wrong thing to do, at least he didn't take the poor fish to a nearby river or lake and turn it loose, or flush it down the toilet. I can't tell you how many times I heard people tell me they have done this with their fish when they outgrow their tanks, and it really raises my blood pressure.

 

[Sorrell]

Finally, a good healthy discussion with no name calling or hurt feelings, etc!!!

My 2 cents: Although it would not be un-natural in the fishes native habitat for this scenario to occur, and it would be fascinating to watch under those circumstances, there is something just a bit weird about throwing a healthy oscar to a group of piranha and video taping it being torn apart. A healthy oscar in the wild would most likely have evaded the piranha. The piranha would have been filling their niche in the food chain by feeding on a sick or weak oscar. Any conscientious fishkeeper would have found some other means of getting rid of an unwanted oscar. While we may view it as the wrong thing to do, at least he didn't take the poor fish to a nearby river or lake and turn it loose, or flush it down the toilet. I can't tell you how many times I heard people tell me they have done this with their fish when they outgrow their tanks, and it really raises my blood pressure.

I think that is exactly why I have a problem with it regardless of my feelings on the pain topic. Well worded

 

[NinjaSmurf]

Maybe we should build fences along the P's natural habitat so that cows and other animals don't accidently walk in and feed the P's.

From what I've read and heard, P's do not kill everything in their path unless they have been without food for a long time, and then it's pretty fast. I've seen the show were the little host goes 'we're placing this dead cow into the water to see just how long it takes for this school of P's to eat it' and the P's scarf it down like that.

So this guy must feed his pretty well. I wonder with what?

Oscar to P's = bunny to python

P's chomp pieces out of oscar till it's dead. Oscar is able to fight back, at least for a little.

Bunny can maybe get a bite in or two before Python grabs a hold of bunny, usually by the head, and proceeds to crush it to death. Unlike my stepdads moniter, who ate mice alive. Very much alive, because they were still trying to climb out of the things throat while it was trying to swallow it. I wonder if they die from lack of oxygen or the stomach acids?

We could go on, but I think some people are nauseous. Face, the guy did, he has the right to do it, and there isn't anything we can do about it. And I don't think we should.

Besides, if the guy hit it with a hammer or something before he threw it in the tank, we'd have started a thread over how cruel it is to kill a fish that way.




*what? We already did? I don't remember... I posted on that one too? Oh yeah, the great how to kill a bigger fish, hammer, car, or clove oil? debate. Hmm. I agree, this one is pointless too.*


Support U. R. F.U.L.L. B.S.

(United Rescuers For the Universal Love and Liberty of Brine Shrimp)




edited because my spelling sucks when I'm excited. Or need sleep.

 

[Synirr]

While we may view it as the wrong thing to do, at least he didn't take the poor fish to a nearby river or lake and turn it loose, or flush it down the toilet.

I'd think he'd have trouble getting an oscar that size to go down the toilet

 

[NinjaSmurf]

Even better, can you imagine the look on the plumber's face?

 

[Vip]

What makes it sick?

In the wild the P's would eat a sickly cow that entered the water or any other animal of any size...

Piranha's wont eat anything that comes into the water, people swim with them and only get "warning bites" to let them know they have babies near by, no one has ever been attacked by a P or killed for that matter, now to they attack anything that would come across them, they would rather swim away.
They more attack a animal that is hurt and bleeding and fell into the water.