I Just Don't Get People!

[Tortea]

The law is 16, but the shop says 18.

Im younger than 16 but the shop knows i look after very well, so they let me buy fish, but i know a lot of people who would buy fish,(who are under 16) and then abuse it, So i think the rule is good.

The law says people under 16 can look after pets but cannot buy them, anyway its normally my parents money what buy the fish not mine

 

[fishyfeet]

I would be very happy if stores would just change the advice they give people, that's what bothers me the most. I understand the need for the small cups in the store, its really the only logical way to house them, but when there's 10+ cups filled with dead rotting fish and old food, there's just no excuse for that.

exactly, they only have to say how are you keeping this betta, what other fish do you have, etc,
maybe they will sell more tanks and equipment if they say this is the minimum setup we recommend, you will always get idiots who take no notice. what about doing some betta care sheets and asking shops to leave them out for people to take or put one in with every betta sold. di

 

[Amberleaf]

-Shops CANNOT sell fish to a person (under 18) or if the think that the animal is going to be mistreated.

and you can imagine how surprised i was when i came to the US, i was shocked in how people where keeping them!

Tortea

What? Seriously? So, even though I keep my Bettas in optimal conditions, just because I'm a 'kid' I can't buy a Betta? Grrrr.... D

On the other hand, however; that's very good of them. Hmm.... I wonder if Stephen Harper, or maybe the people who run the Wildlife Association thingy of Canada or whatever, would like a bunch of letters requesting something like this be put into place....

I May be moving to canada

And Yes.

In the Uk the age is 16?? Something like that. But my LFS Know's i can treat the fish right but still wont let me buy them! xD

good on them tbh.

I hope you're not serious. If you'll help me save Bettas though then I'll buy you a plane ticket (and you will be forced to come even if you don't want to). XD Nahhhhh, I don't have the money.

 

[aly_starh]

In Scotland we have laws (surprise) and you are not allowed to keep any fish under 1L in a shop and 10l at home(or something like that), in Finland they have even stricter rules, you can't keep fish under 20l full stop. In Scotland you can be sent to jail for hurting ANY animal, even if its a polar bear or a betta.
Im in scotland too, you are allowed to keep fish in 10L at home, if you weren't they wouldn't sell 10L tanks
-Shops CANNOT sell fish fish to a person (under 18) or if the think that the animal is going to be mistreated.
They can start selling pets to a 16 year old, and i have never heard of an minimum age to keep fish, maybe thats just my LFS being Greedy for money ?

It does have its downside, you have to fill out about 2forms before you can buy a fish, and you have to take it back if it dies.And they ask a whole lot of questions and tell you loads of stuff before you buy your first fish, and when you buy more fishes they sometimes make you take a water sample.

But my LFS is great, when you buy a fish even if it dies you get a new free one for free, or if they start attacking other fish.

Never filled out no forms for when buying fish, been to over 6 different fish shops in scotland, never come across this. Apart from P@H, i know of no FS that has a Money Back Garuntee thing for a dead fish.

You are talking about Scotland UK? Yeah?

Wierd, are all the LFS around here just careless?

 

[Knox213]

-Shops CANNOT sell fish to a person (under 18) or if the think that the animal is going to be mistreated.

and you can imagine how surprised i was when i came to the US, i was shocked in how people where keeping them!

Tortea

What? Seriously? So, even though I keep my Bettas in optimal conditions, just because I'm a 'kid' I can't buy a Betta? Grrrr.... D

On the other hand, however; that's very good of them. Hmm.... I wonder if Stephen Harper, or maybe the people who run the Wildlife Association thingy of Canada or whatever, would like a bunch of letters requesting something like this be put into place....

I May be moving to canada

And Yes.

In the Uk the age is 16?? Something like that. But my LFS Know's i can treat the fish right but still wont let me buy them! xD

good on them tbh.

I hope you're not serious. If you'll help me save Bettas though then I'll buy you a plane ticket (and you will be forced to come even if you don't want to). XD Nahhhhh, I don't have the money.

My friend wants to own a santuary and i asked her if i could keep fish/rescue fish for her and she said as long as i kneep them in good health as she knows nothing about fish :

In Scotland we have laws (surprise) and you are not allowed to keep any fish under 1L in a shop and 10l at home(or something like that), in Finland they have even stricter rules, you can't keep fish under 20l full stop. In Scotland you can be sent to jail for hurting ANY animal, even if its a polar bear or a betta.
Im in scotland too, you are allowed to keep fish in 10L at home, if you weren't they wouldn't sell 10L tanks
-Shops CANNOT sell fish fish to a person (under 18) or if the think that the animal is going to be mistreated.
They can start selling pets to a 16 year old, and i have never heard of an minimum age to keep fish, maybe thats just my LFS being Greedy for money ?

It does have its downside, you have to fill out about 2forms before you can buy a fish, and you have to take it back if it dies.And they ask a whole lot of questions and tell you loads of stuff before you buy your first fish, and when you buy more fishes they sometimes make you take a water sample.

But my LFS is great, when you buy a fish even if it dies you get a new free one for free, or if they start attacking other fish.

Never filled out no forms for when buying fish, been to over 6 different fish shops in scotland, never come across this. Apart from P@H, i know of no FS that has a Money Back Garuntee thing for a dead fish.

You are talking about Scotland UK? Yeah?

Wierd, are all the LFS around here just careless?

16+ Can buy fish.

One person in my lfs is 16. I Talk to a few people in my LFS as they're pretty awsome to talk to at times ( Random chit chat )

 

[Tolak]

My LFS which really are local and aren't big chains, look after Bettas with lots of care, and treat them like............a kid.They have even named them.

In Scotland we have laws (surprise) and you are not allowed to keep any fish under 1L in a shop and 10l at home(or something like that), in Finland they have even stricter rules, you can't keep fish under 20l full stop. In Scotland you can be sent to jail for hurting ANY animal, even if its a polar bear or a betta. So if you:
-Perpisly or Acciendently put it into a tank with fish that will hurt it you are breaking the law, because you are not taking due care and attention.
-No Feeding- Breaking the law, the biggest way possible
-Keeping it in Small tanks(When in transport rules are different)but if you keep them for a overly long time in a bag, people have been sent to jail for this.
-Shops CANNOT sell fish to a person (under 18) or if the think that the animal is going to be mistreated.
-And cruelty can lead to a prison term.
-Special branch of the government/charity RSPCA have the same rights as police but cannot give out charges but refer to the police, they also have their own (very good) lawers
as i said, the look upon every animal in the same light, so they don't care if you hurt fish or a dog.


and you can imagine how surprised i was when i came to the US, i was shocked in how people where keeping them!

Tortea

That is quite interesting, and is the way the entire world should work. How does this apply to aquarium societies & clubs that have auctions with bagged fish, or bowl shows with fish that are shown in bowls? How does this size limitation apply to breeders, who will often hatch spawns in smaller containers?

There are plenty of laws that apply to animals in the US, I think the biggest problem here is the lack of enforcement. I quit selling, and refused to sell fish I've bred to a rather large corporate chain, due to where they procured their other animals. Could have made some tall dollars if I compromised my morals, I'm not about to do that.

 

[Tortea]

That is quite interesting, and is the way the entire world should work. How does this apply to aquarium societies & clubs that have auctions with bagged fish, or bowl shows with fish that are shown in bowls? How does this size limitation apply to breeders, who will often hatch spawns in smaller containers?

There are plenty of laws that apply to animals in the US, I think the biggest problem here is the lack of enforcement. I quit selling, and refused to sell fish I've bred to a rather large corporate chain, due to where they procured their other animals. Could have made some tall dollars if I compromised my morals, I'm not about to do that.
[/quote]

1. You are allowed to keep fish in smaller containers for a limited period, people use a lot of common sense here, so do the RSPCA, if the fish are tiny nobody is going to mind, but some people have kept eels in fish bowls, which is just wrong. What they are trying to tell people is how to care for them, and what is simply wrong, im sure anyone with a law book in their hands could go and shut down an auction, but these people are experts with fish and can prove that they were only going to be kept in a small container for a limited time, why would anyone want to stop it? But then a few months ago, some youths attached 5goldfish in their bags to balloons, there was about 50 RSPCA officers and police officers and even more of the general public trying to save the fish, (which they did) but this kicked up a big row. But it makes you think, how much more of this would happen if we didn't have these laws?

 

[Floyds mum]

-Shops CANNOT sell fish to a person (under 18) or if the think that the animal is going to be mistreated.

and you can imagine how surprised i was when i came to the US, i was shocked in how people where keeping them!

Tortea

What? Seriously? So, even though I keep my Bettas in optimal conditions, just because I'm a 'kid' I can't buy a Betta? Grrrr.... D

On the other hand, however; that's very good of them. Hmm.... I wonder if Stephen Harper, or maybe the people who run the Wildlife Association thingy of Canada or whatever, would like a bunch of letters requesting something like this be put into place....

Its still 16 in england though

 

[OldMan47]

That brings us back to Tolak's question I think, Floyds mum. If you must be 16 to buy or sell a fish, what do you do at a club or a fish auction, bar the door and check IDs? My own club has no age limit at all. If a 12 year old thought he wanted to attend our meetings, he would be welcomed. We do sometimes conduct mini-auctions at a regular meeting and we would not ignore the young person's bid. When it comes to providing proper care, the last thing I would do is look at a person's age. Instead I would want to know if they know anything about caring for the fish. The young person at the club meeting would probably know more than most of the people who walk through the LFS.

 

[Tolak]

For our club auctions we have a kid's table, 12 & under to bid. Of course they are also welcome to bid on all the rest of the auction items, the kid's table items are more affordable things.

 

[Assaye]

Many of us do aquatics advocacy, actually.

For example:

+ I rescue bettas where I can. I will bargain the store owner/manager down to a discount or I will attempt to get the abused animal for free. I do this with other fish, where possible.

+ I write letters and send e-mails to store owners and managers where I see neglect or bad advice being given.

+ I started working for a local store in order to help raise standards there and give better advice to customers

+ I have contacted local shop licensing authorities to complain about poor animal welfare.

+ I post regularly on many forums advising people about good aquatics care (assuming I know enough to do so - bad advice masquerading as good advice is often worse than bad advice that looks like bad advice).

+ I started a Facebook group about betta fighting

Sometimes, though, I just need a rant because somethimes, there isn't much that can be done. And sometimes, even if you are trying to improve things, you just need a rant.

 

[keithp]

In the U.S. by me anyone can buy a fish it seems, you dont have to be any age just know how to count money. You can buy as many bettas as you like, and they dont even give you a care sheet or help you to know what supplies to buy. So many bettas are dead or dying at my store and they have over 100 stocked at a time so that's a lot of neglect! They must get rid of 10 dead bettas a day due to neglect, they sometimes dump them in the sink even if they are still alive, but barely.

I wish someone did betta rescue by me, they are greatly needed!

 

[theshadowinc]

I would be very happy if stores would just change the advice they give people, that's what bothers me the most. I understand the need for the small cups in the store, its really the only logical way to house them, but when there's 10+ cups filled with dead rotting fish and old food, there's just no excuse for that.

Actually there really isn't a call to have them sitting in cups at all! For transportation you have bags for that! They could take the area where the bettas are and make a betta wall! 1gallon containers (Aquariums) all with overflow and a sump and a pump for filtration and to flow the water back to the containers they are in. Not only with the normal neglect for them on store shelves this would make the life of them longer even with neglect! They would even save on the little cups because they cost more than the betta does for the most part and more than a plastic bag they bag fish up in.

As far as looking at the breeding side of it they do the same thing males go in cups and females into a soroity tank, its the way I did it about 3 years back or so. I am looking at breeding mine but really don't like the water change and the upkeep needed for it only because changing the water 2-3 times a day is a pain,... it really is weather you believe in housing that way or not! The best thing I have come across for bettas so far is the betta wall, not only can I give them a 1 gallon tank ea betta gets a 1 gallon tank to grow out in but I don't have to worry about all those water changes everyday! As a breeder of these creatures I find this is the best system I have ever seen for them especially keeping/raising them in bulk. Not only that I bet my survival rate will be much higher and my profits will pay for the wall in 1 breed okay maybe 2 breeds lol. But looking at a store that has who knows how much invested into there other tanks not talking walmart here talking lfs that use an actual filtration system, why can't they do the same for bettas its not hard and the technoligy is starting to pick up now especially for a betta wall! Its cheap, provides individual homes for ea fish, saves money on cups!, less water changes, ea betta can be monitored easily, feedings takes less time etc just so many pros to it, the cons are ick spreads quick lol throughout an entire system like that but its still cheap depending on how you build and maintain it, it needs to cycle so it takes time, investment up front, costs more in the beggining than housing in cups etc

I actually got to talk with a few LFS in my area about them and really to be honest they don't care, basically one person says owe we buy them for 1 dollar ea local or in bulk with our other orders and they are cheap so no big deal! This was an actual reply I got, and even they knew the proper way to take care of them it just all comes down to money with them and thats usually all they look at weather it be for the good or the bad! I even went as far as saying to the guy I had Wild betta's I bred and would sell to the store, he said ya and offered a price I said its this much per fish (Was resonable) he said I wan't bulk this many for this price I have to calculate the losses and there will be losses, I said there will be no losses unless you don't understand on how to take care of them! ....... I never dealt with that place for selling my stalk, I told the guy he was crazy to be putting Halfmoons, doubletails, SD, etc in cups. In the end the person just didn't want to invest the person wanted the quick dollar from them! Really I only see it as they look at the money part of it only and its about the profit they can make from it or the quick dollar because they die in 2 years anyways lol we know thats not true. Its the way the world turns we just have to learn to live with what happens. But really like this topic stated I love reading about all the people who complain all the time but they are not out there doing anything about it! The person is right though it is true alot vent on the internet about it, I have just learned oh well and learn to live with it! The stores I deal with know they will have to have a system of some sort for them if I sell to them, usually they would just send people to me was much easier than dealing with the middle man and probably will remain that way anyways.

I guess the end of the story is, basically it all boils down to Money in the end, especially for the shop owners and stores like wallmart and petco, petsmart.

 

[lilacamy931]

I can understand the main point of this thread. I have 6 LFS. When it comes to bettas, 3 are excellent keeping them in their own environment and one has individual pumps for every tank. The other 3 keep bettas in community tanks (not naming any). Two of these are large chain stores and having visited sister stores it seems it is dependant on the store itself (as the sister store had individual betta tanks), I have politely ranted at the managers about this but at the end of the day, the bettas sell and they see no real problem with it..I have also emailed main HR no response. The last of these two stores though, was seriously the bombs, it was incredible people even though about buying any fish off them including bettas. This one because there was real problems in many areas, reported to the RSPCA, had an email back from them saying looking into. Two months later me and my partner thought we would look in and were amazed how much it had changed in quality of fish. Did I make a difference? Unsure, but the store is now looking better and the fish including the bettas are in better conditions.

My point is I guess unless you really are going to go n a mission, with the bigger chains it may not make a difference as they make too much money from novices and other products sold in store. My point of view I guess is try to make the store manager understand my fish and business perspective in hopes that one store can at least be changed, but dont be overly surprised if it doesnt. Do try it as there are reasonable people out there that just need explaining from different perspectives, all you can do is try. Thats probably a very skeptical view and sorry if no one agrees. (im grouchy from flu )