I Have A Gripe And Want Opinions

[Lolly123]

I recently setup an African cichlid tank, transferring over my established mature filter from my community tank. I am pretty miffed at the attitude I received from numerous LFS and would like to find out if I'm the one who is actually way off track here. Opinions needed.

Doing a transfer didnt take long as there were 2 of us o
n the case. Fish were out and rehomed quickly, sand washed and placed in along with the coral sand mixed in. Filled tank up, dechlor added and brought up to a temp of about 26. Tank was left to rest and circulate over night. Original water was in the filter and kept wet and switched back on as soon as poss.

Considering my filter has been established for a long time I assumed I might get a little die off but went with my logic and felt safe in the sense that it would have been fine for around 18 hours with no ammonia source.

So, I went to buy the fish, and in one store was told that I would have to leave my tank for at least a week. I asked the guy if he was really telling me to leave my fully mutate filter running for a week on empty, I.e nothing to feed it and he said yes, I walked out.

Next shop I went to I know pretty well. At first, he refused to sell fish to me and said he would want me to leave my tank another day. I had a long conversation with him about my filter and in the end I said to him that if he wasn't going to sell me some fish then I'd go elsewhere. He decided let me buy some.

What I am trying to work out is the logic behind this advice I was given.

I know there is always a small risk when transferring filters etc but I know how to water change, I bought prime just in case and I have tested twice a day ever since and guess what parameters for ammo and nitrite are returning 0 and PH stable at 7.8.

Is there something I am missing here?

 

[Ps3Steveo]

Did you buy a new filter over the weekend then?

 

[Shaddex]

LFS Staff, (the big stores) always run on the "New tank = Leave running for a week and all will be cycled" lmao..  Thats if they actually know what the Nitrogen Cycle is.  There are a select few members of staff that actually keep fish at home who will understand.
 
I suppose moving a mature filter to a new tank "Could" cause issues, ie, forgot to add dechlor eltc, but most of the "Smaller" fish shops should be clued up when it comes to moving a mature filter and would know that if done correctly, its an "Insta Cycle".
 
I guess its just very ill advised staff or a vast lack in knowledge regarding these things.

 

[Lolly123]

No, didn't buy new filter. My tetratec does a good job and has been up and running for yonks. So I just keep it wet while we sorted everything, let the tank settle and the put it back on.

I could see their point if I said I wanted to buy 20 fish in one go, but I bought six lol. So in the long run my bio load has decreased quite heavily from the previous tank, but my stocking from here on out is going to be slow and steady.

It just really pi**ed me off because I thought you will happily sell to someone who doesn't have clue or doesn't have a cycled tank (filter) but somehow I'm the villain here!

 

[MBOU]

Personally, I'd have also been one to err on the side of caution...
 
I know people do it but... changing the entire lot of water and substrate etc and relying entirely on the filter.... just makes me very uneasy and if it were me you spoke to in the shop... without knowing anything more, I would have advised using an ammonia source that wasnt a fish (just a little food or something) and double checking it cycles through quickly enough...
 
That said...  if it were a decent sized tank, I wouldn't have hesitated much to sell you fish but I'd have warned you to be very careful and stock lightly at first to be safe, seen too many things go wrong for people at this stage and for the sake of stocking slowly... its not worth rushing.
 
But thats just me and I have kept fish... many shop staff dont... its just a job.. ad as much as people dislike that (and it really is unfortunate!) not enough hobbyists want to work in the trade and i assure you... with very good reason... which leaves employers to just employ anyone...

 

[sadguppy]

not enough hobbyists want to work in the trade and i assure you... with very good reason... which leaves employers to just employ anyone...

 
Whilst I admire what you do MBOU, I couldn't a) spend my days trying to convince chavs and idiots that oscars can't fit in 20 gallon tanks whilst simultaneously trying to sell enough fish to keep my boss happy and thus keep my job or b) survive on shop pay. I worked in a shop when I was 15/16 on less than minimum wage and I tell you, never again! It's HARD and customers SUCK!

 

[Lolly123]

I completely agree with you on some aspects, and as I explained to the guy, my original tank, well my mums tank was overstocked, hence the reason of rehoming. My bio load was going from maybe 18 fish to 6, in my opinion not much can go majorly wrong if you are cautious and religiously test and keep an eye on your water parameters.

Personally, I don't think water or substrate hold much in the way of bacteria, so that I don't quite agree on.

I highlighted that my tank was a 55gallon and I was after 6 juvenile labidochromis caeruleus, which had a tetratec 1200 filter running, which had been established years.

I applaud the guy for being cautious about his sale, I respect that, it's a shame most don't do the same, only to people who clearly don't have a clue.

Oh and just to add, my original plan was to get some bottled ammonia...I drove to numerous boots, wilkinsons and even phoned around and everyone looked at me like I was an alien. I couldn't find it anywhere, I ended up ordering a bottle from ebay... Which still hasn't arrived.

 

[Ps3Steveo]

There was probably enough ammonia in the water from them clowns that the filter's bacteria didn't change lol, waiting another day would have been a different matter tho. Was it one of the lfs's I mentioned to you?

 

[Lolly123]

Tell me about it, the clowns were huge and I am so relieved that they have gone to a more appropriate home lol.

None of the LFS's you told me about. It was one they mentioned and to be fair they are very good and I respect their trade and the good quality fish I buy from there. We just had a differing of opinions, but in the end it's worked out fine. Lol

 

[MBOU]

Sorry, i'm rarely clear when i speak, my mind moves on before i finish writing and then i forget what i was writing LOL
 
I know the water doesnt have the bacteria and the substrate to an extent (though i believe depending on layout and flow of the tank... that it is feasible that some substrates can hold bacteria colonies)... its just that such big changes in water you risk their being a difference in parameters that might 'shock' or effect the colonies of bacteria in the filter...
 
It was just a thought, i dont know reasons behind it but i have customers all the time that keep the filters, empty tank, fill up and dechlorinate again... reattach filter and its fine for a day or two and then crashes or just as a small spike in nitrites.
 
I don't think you said the tanksize or fish in your first post, if they are only small juvies... id barely have raised an eyebrow lol... id have pointed out risks just in case... but gone along with it...
 
I dont know, its so easy to slip into a 'better safe than sorry' mode when dealing with one eejit or another that its easy to miss the one in a hundred hobbyist rather than fish keeper comes in lol. Or I find when i go browse shops... is that they allll want to feel they know more... which is not good when they clearly dont and have to compensate by enforcing their incorrect information.

 

[Lolly123]

I think you make good points, using the same water or at least a good percentage is always great if you can. And I would agree that some substrates are capable of holding beneficial bacteria.

I do feel sorry for some of the workers in LFS's, we've all made errors in our time but I couldn't sell fish to people who obviously don't give a damn.. It must be quite hard. I'd end up telling most customers to get out lol.

I explained to the man who initially refused to sell me the fish, that I buy from him because I respect his store and his advice and he knows I'd always do my best for my fish and wouldn't dump them in to a toxic tank. He agreed to sell them to me because he knows me and my respect for the hobby. So in the end it was a good result.

They are all doing really well actually, poking their heads out from behind the rock, all I can see is little eyes checking if the coast is clear lol.

 

[The Taffy Apple]

I have found it alot easier, much more often than not, to simply avoid all conversations about anything Nitrogen cycle related to the majority of fish stores i visit. If i want advice, i come here. If i want fish, i go there. I have even been banned from one store in the next town for disagreeing with what the 'boss' had to say when i was looking for fish directly after my first ever fishless cycle...some of you may have remembered the thread at the time in which she stated "you are putting WHAT in your tank?" when i mentioned how i cycled it with Ammonia.
You obviously know what you are talking about, so i would agree with you when you state to go with caution...continue your water tests and change water when and how much as required.
 
Terry.

 

[Lolly123]

Lol funny you say that about ammonia...

I was in a LFS after going in search of bottled ammonia and having no luck and I asked the guy who was serving me if he knew where I might be able to pick up some, he was like. "What, ammonia is the enemy" so I just nodded and avoided any further conversation.

Defo take your advice about ignoring the nitrogen cycle talk!

 

[Ps3Steveo]

If someone tells me rubbish in a lfs, I tell them different lol, esp if they're telling a customer, then I point them in the direction of TFF.

 

[Lolly123]

I have done that once, and was told to leave. I listened for about 5 minutes and just couldn't take it anymore, so I interjected.
My friend jack who you met on Sat, is a newbie, I seeded his filter and his tank is coming along amazingly. He'll be on the forum soon and I've no doubt he is gonna be a fab fish keeper, doing tons of research already.