I Finally Bit The Bullet And Added The Ammonia, Cycling Started...

[thrujenseyes]

So my little fluval edge 6 gallon had been up and running for 8 days (3 live plants, driftwood and a stow away assassin snail...and some other random snail that popped up) when I started the cycling.
 
I had to wait for my heater and the purchase of my api master test kit.
 
I added .72 ml ammonia last night, the reading came in around 1ppm
 
I added a tad more, reading 2ppm.
 
Tad more yet again, finally 3ppm.
 
About 16 hours later (just now) I tested and it's coming back down...around 1.5 maybe 2ish...so hard to tell with these color charts.
 
My question right now is this:
Do I want to keep it around 3ppm?  Or am I letting it go....just not getting down to 0.
 
I'm unsure where I'm suppose to be keeping the ammonia at this stage?!
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[Tooombsy]

Hi Jen. Did you check out the how to cycle instructions on here?
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/
This has everything you need

Wait for ammonia to drop below 0.75 before dosing again, and test both ammonia and nitrite every few days

 

[thrujenseyes]

Hi Jen. Did you check out the how to cycle instructions on here?
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/
This has everything you need

Wait for ammonia to drop below 0.75 before dosing again, and test both ammonia and nitrite every few days

 
hello and yes I did but either someone mentioned or I read somewhere else to keep dosing it back up to to 3.  I wasn't sure if I had to wait but I will definitely wait until .75... thank you!  I really need to read one thing and just follow it, I suppose!  Too much info in the head is terrible!

 

[Gruntle]

You dose it back up to 3, but only after it's dropped below 0.75ppm and the nitrite is over 2.0ppm. This shows that the ammonia bacs are doing their thing, converting ammonia to nitrite. The nitrite bacs will take longer to do their thing, they reproduce at a slower rate so they can't quite keep up. This is why you shouldn't overdose on ammonia, even if it keeps falling steadily.
 
If you keep dosing back to 3ppm every time it drops (but before it drops to less than 0.75), you'll end up with too much nitrite and the cycle will stall. In a perfect cycle you'll probably only have to re-dose to 3ppm once or twice (plus the snack dose) until near the very end (see the cycling article).
 
I notice you said you have live plants. They will not only consume some of the ammonia, but they will likely have beneficial bacteria on them and that will assist in your cycle. Others here have more experience to tell you how that will affect your cycle, and I've never done it before so I'll step off.

 

[thrujenseyes]

Man gruntle... That was super helpful!!! Thanks so much!!

It's funny how I can read and re read big articles that seem to explain things perfectly yet there are pieces that I just can't understand or I'm too confused..
Then someone walks in and tells you in the right way for your brain to accept it and bam, you get it!

Thanks!!

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Jen- that article here will get you cycled if you follow it exactly. If you mix methods from different sites you will likely have problems. And then who do you ask for help site A or site B since you are not following either method but some combination of different methods.
 
The method here works so well because it does not overdo ammonia additions. Daily dosing to bring a tank back to 3 ppm will more likely destroy the cycle than complete it. Notice that the article here is very specific in that regard. It is also written to work with the most popular hobby test kits.
 
Here is a link to one of the earliest fishless cycling articles originally published in 1996. What you will see is it was revised years later- scroll down for the revisions.

 
Conclusions:
The method remains viable.  I don't see any reason for people to NOT use the method if they take the proper precautions. After looking at the newer material,  I don't see any reason to change the basic procedure, either. What should be added is a warning to buffer your water if you have low buffering capacity (you probably should be doing this anyway, then?) and to aim for a target level of 1-2 ppM ammonia while cycling.

 Here is the link http/www.cpp.edu/~jskoga/Aquariums/Ammonia.html
 
The method here is designed to insure one never has either too much ammonia or too much nitrite in the water. Too much is basically bad for cycling.
 
Because you have some live plants in your tank that will change things somewhat. That is because plants use ammonia. When a plant uses ammonia, it does not create nitrite the way the bacteria do. The result is the test results in a tank with plants will be a bit different than those in the article. However, in most cases, the basic directions will still work. What should happen with live plants is the cycling process should be shorter because the plants are doing some of the work the bacteria would do when there are no plants. This means less bacteria is needed to handle ammonia.

 

[thrujenseyes]

Two tank admin,
I totally get what you're saying. I always think it's beneficial to educate yourself on a subject as much as you can but when people have different methods it becomes a nightmare. If the problem has one solution, education is great but when it had a few and a bunch of different variables...it's a mess.
...and I don't have the kind of brain that can compartmentalize ...I need to keep it as simple as possible.
Even when reading the article here, I still question things and myself which is why the forum is so helpful to me.
Thanks for taking the time!!

 

[Gruntle]

No problem Jen. I had a bit of a struggle through my first fishless cycle, but the folks here are super helpful. Now that I've read the article a lot of times and had the experience, it's super easy if you follow the instructions.
 
Ask any questions (the only dumb question is the one you don't ask), you're sure to get an answer that helps.

 

[thrujenseyes]

No problem Jen. I had a bit of a struggle through my first fishless cycle, but the folks here are super helpful. Now that I've read the article a lot of times and had the experience, it's super easy if you follow the instructions.
 
Ask any questions (the only dumb question is the one you don't ask), you're sure to get an answer that helps.

 
 
Thanks so much gruntle!
 
I'm kind of excited as I tested last night and the nitrites have showed up (which I believe means things are kicking into gear).
 
My ammonia was down to 1ppm
My nitrites were up to .25
 
I will test tonight and see if the ammonia has come down more and if it's below .75 I will do my second dose.
 
.....right?!

 

[fluttermoth]

Yes, that's right
 
Those are very good results for such a short time; you might be one of the lucky ones who's cycle goes really quickly

 

[thrujenseyes]

Yes, that's right
 
Those are very good results for such a short time; you might be one of the lucky ones who's cycle goes really quickly

Oh let's hope!!!

 

[thrujenseyes]

Oh and I came up with another question (that maybe should be it's own thread but since I'm not sure I'll put here because it still pertains).
 
I have to remove some water when I need to reach into the tank (fluval edge 6 gallon) because of the small opening and the fact that it will overflow....
 
So I need to add water back into to keep full...
do I need to treat this water each time?!  It's just a little bit, but it's only 6 gallons to begin with.
 
And if I do...do I treat (Prime) for just the amount I'm adding back?  Because I'd already treated for the 6 galllon amount when I added the water.
 
Sorry if that was confusing.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

The odds are that yes you need to treat it in case your water company uses chloramine because this can persist for longer than chlorine. If its just chlorine they are using then the odds are decent a very small amount wont be an issue. It will be such a low level and will evaporate fairly quickly so it should be OK.
 
However, I would suggest you have another option here. When you remove some water save it in a clean container. When done working in the tank, return that water. problem solved. You did say it is a very small amount so this should be easy to do.
 
If you do not want to do this, then here is another option. Get a container which holds a gallon and fill it and dechlor it and then use as needed. It will be fine for weeks. Its a lot easier to dechlor a gallon than a smaller amount.
 
Oh yes- regarding that second dose, not only must your ammonia be under .75 ppm, but be sure "nitrite is clearly over 2 ppm". The reason is that will indicate that nitrite is indeed rising. Bear in mind we normally expect to see as much as 2.5 ppm of nitrite for every 1 ppm tthat ammonia drops. Since you started with 3 ppm. I  would expect you to be showing a lot more nitrite than .25 ppm. Can you retest please and be sure you have done it correctly? When using Prime, especially when testing for ammonia, it is important to either test soon after adding Prime or else 24+ hours after that. In between Prime can interfere with the test readings. I do not know how they affect nitrite reading, if at all,
 
It is the Dose #4 (the one after the snack) where those numbers are to be "ammonia is .25 ppm or lower and nitrite is clearly under 1 ppm" At this stage we want to know levels are dropping for sure.

 

[fluttermoth]

However, I would suggest you have another option here. When you remove some water save it in a clean container. When done working in the tank, return that water. problem solved. You did say it is a very small amount so this should be easy to do.

That's what I used to do, if I needed to work in the Edge. I kept a clean plastic cup and jug with my water changing things, and 'ladled' a bit of water out so it didn't overflow, then just poured it gently back in

 

When using Prime, especially when testing for ammonia, it is important to either test soon after adding Prime or else 24+ hours after that. In between Prime can interfere with the test readings. I do not know how they affect nitrite reading, if at all.

It's only the ammonia test that is affected by Prime. All the others are read as normal.

 

[thrujenseyes]

Goodness... The fact that I didn't think to just save the water is absurd!! Ha
Anyway I will definitely put aside a gallon hat I can treat to have ready for water changes...great idea!!

As for that extra bit in the ammonia and nitrites and retesting...I'll have to re read that a couple times and process and get back to you later tonight after further tests.

Thanks!!