How to start a CO2 system? Is it necessary?

[thegoldengoose]

Hi all,

I’ve just recently joined this forum and have been enjoying reading many of these threads.
Now for the juice:
I have had a planted tank (and two other hard-scape only tanks for my African dwarf frogs and brackish-water perisesarma bidens), and the planted tank has been running for about 6 months now. Recently I got frustrated with how the plants were growing and how it looked, and I tore it all down on a (perhaps un-smart) whim. I put the Dennerle substrate outside to dry in the sun, and then left the plants in my bare-bottom tank because I didn’t have time to finish. It’s been like that for weeks now because I’ve been busy and I know it’s not good for the plants to be hanging out like that.
I feel stuck at this point, because I am frustrated that even with all the expensive (to me) lighting and substrate, my plants started dying. I know that I need ferts and I’d really like to implement CO2 to get that luscious scaped look, but I don’t know where to begin to look! The more I research, the more confused I become.
As far as ferts and CO2 systems, do you have any suggestions of what I should get? Something that is semi-affordable/ would give back in the long run. I am a student who has to pinch pennies but I adore this hobby and am willing to put money into it if it means my plants and fish will be happy and beautiful. I’ll attach a picture of the tank before I tore it down.
Man, I have so many questions I want to ask.
For the photos, I inserted two showing my tank before it was torn down. I’m sure you can tell which one it is out of all the pics since it looks pretty bad as far as scaping goes . I inserted the other 3 pictures of beautifully-scaped tanks for reference to where I want to get my tank someday. And so maybe you guys can help me with suggestions of how to make a scape look that nice.
I appreciate all of you guys so much, and
thanks for taking the time to read this!
Have a fin-tastic day!
~TGGE

 

[Colin_T]

Hi and welcome to the forum

Unless you have very bright light and lots of aquarium plant fertiliser, there is no point adding carbon dioxide (CO2) to an aquarium.

There is plenty of CO2 in the atmosphere that gets into the water, and the fish and filter bacteria continuously produce CO2 and release it into the water. The CO2 from these sources is sufficient for virtually all aquatic plants.

Think about the local river, creek or lake, nobody is pumping CO2 into them and the plants do really well in the wild.

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You have a nice healthy Madagascan Lace plant and if that is growing well, then you don't need to add any CO2.

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I used Sera Florena liquid aquarium plant fertiliser. I used an Iron (Fe) test kit and kept the iron levels at 1ppm, and my plants did well without CO2.
There are other brands of fertiliser out there that are also good.

The main thing with plant fertilisers (terrestrial and aquatic) is to give the plants a steady supply. Plants do best when there is a nice steady continuous supply of food.

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If you really want to get a CO2 unit, get a decent brand (Dupla, Eheim, etc). Use bottled gas, regulators, automated KH/ pH buffering systems, etc. This will cost you a lot of money but will be safer for any fish because there is less chance of something bad happening and releasing a heap of CO2 suddenly.

If you do get a CO2 unit, set it up and get it running before you add any fish to the tank. Let it run on the tank for a month before adding fish. This gives you a chance to dial in the CO2 unit and make sure everything is working properly before fish go in the tank.

 

[Wills]

Hi GoldenGoose welcome to the forum

I'm in the process of setting up my first aquascape, planted tank (literally waiting for a delivery of plants as we speak!) Co2 is certainly an option but it is not always necessary. I have chosen to go down the Co2 route (not set up yet) but there are some tanks in a low tech (without Co2) that are able to compete with the examples you have posted.

If I critique your current tank and if we are compare it to the other examples my thoughts are that you have a lot of visable equipment which is always hard to contend with but there are options - the Oase Biomaster Thermo external filter for example has the heater in the canister and you can attach lilly pipes (steel or glass) to this easily. Removing your technology from the tank helps really quickly.

Your current tank has some really great achievements in there like your dwarf hairgrass, growing this without Co2 is very impressive! Given time I think this would have gotten really dense. One plant that really stands out, and possibly for the wrong reasons is the Lace Plant. If you look at your examples they use much finer leaf textures and only one example has crypts and java ferns. The rest are using small Bucephalandra, Anubias, Fissidens Moss, Marsilea hirsuta and Monte Carlo. Your current scape is also quite flat, a lot of the aspirational aquascapes you see have very steeped substrates and deep stacks/ structures of hardscape which when you put the tank back together could be something to bear in mind.

So if you decide not to go down the route of Co2 you could look at selecting different plants that are closer to what you want to achieve. There is nothing wrong with copying something you have seen, these tanks are for our enjoyment and if you see something someone has had a lot off success with try to replicate it.

If you do want to go down the Co2 route there are a couple of readily available kits. Co2 art have a great reputation - these are what I have bought based on reviews I have seen on Youtube.

Pro-SE Series Complete Aquarium CO2 System with in-tank Flux Diffuser

Pro-SE Series Complete Aquarium CO2 System with latest in-tank Flux_ diffuser is compilation of our most popular and best rated dual stage CO2 regulator and CO2 accessories. This kit will come with everything you need to start injecting CO2 into your aquarium in aquariums the without external...

www.co2art.co.uk

Your tank does not look too big though so you may be able to use one of the nano kits like this

Plant Growth System Nano is a desirable solution for precise CO2 dosage in small aquariums. - Tropica Aquarium Plants

A complete CO2 system with an elegant nano design. A precise and stable CO2 regulation. A 3-in-1 diffuser, which ensures a maximum CO2 efficiency.

tropica.com

There are some issues with the smaller kit but it is easier and it is possible to have great success with them but make sure you read up on them and an issue called end of tank dump.

The bigger Co2 kit has the issue of you needing to source a Co2 canister, I'm using a Co2 fire exinguisher which I have just had delivered but you can get specific tanks that you just get refilled. You then also need to acknowledge you have a pressurised canister in your home, as long as you are sensible about this then it is perfectly safe but its not something to take for granted.

What light do you have at the moment? If you get Co2 it is important to match your light levels, fertilisation and Co2 together otherwise you will get algae issues too.

If your light is not high enough watts for a high tech tank I would probably spend the money on new plants and hardscape and go for a low tech tank using plants like Marsilea Hirsuta, Crypt Parva, small Buce and Anabuias and lots of moss.

Wills

 

[thegoldengoose]

@Colin_T
Thanks for your advice!

I’m not sure if my lighting system is considered very high light (in fact it probably isn’t—maybe medium?). I have a Nicrew LED light (380 lm, 6 watts) that advertises itself on Amazon as “super bright”. I don’t know a lot about lighting systems yet. When I first started I was very eager and perhaps should have done more research, but I tried to go with something that seemed decent according to the reviews (affordability+quality).

I’m looking into getting ferts now, although I’m not sure where to get Sera Florena. I do not have any LFS within a decent distance, and ordering online can be tricky. Where would you recommend I get it from? And do you have any other suggestions for ferts?

I’ll keep the CO2 thing in mind. Definitely wouldn’t want to harm my fish while figuring it out. And I’ve heard of end of tank dumps which sound devastating.

I think I’m going to perhaps focus on getting the plants fertilized, and working on my scaping skills and then maybe if I get a larger tank, upgrade to CO2. I might change my mind though.

Thanks again!

 

[Byron]

First, the photos of your own former tank look darn good to me, from the plant perspective. The water is hazy, which could be the filter or lack of adequate regular water changes. But the state of the plants I would consider very good indeed. Light must be adequate/sufficient--which is not at all a detrimental term but rather a positive--and plant additives do not seem to be insufficient either given the state of the plants.

Moving forward, if you care about fish first with plants as beneficial biological bonuses and creating a more natural aquascape, then do not increase the lighting and forget CO2. There is evidence that both do negatively impact fish over time. It is no surprise that many of the high-tech planted tank aquatic gardens we see are plant-only. Fish do not live well in such set-ups.

Once you decide which way you want to go...fish tank with plants or plant garden, decisions will be easier. A couple photos of my low-tech tanks below to illustrate.

 

[mbsqw1d]

Agree your plants look lush and very healthy. Comparing to photos of aquascapes destined for the pages of a magazine is tricky, as these have very likely had a touch up in some adobe software... certainly to bring out the greens and deepen the contrasts.
A black background is often utilised and helps to a) hide wiring etc (b) allow colours in your tank to 'pop' and contrast.
It really does depend on whether your choice of plants require the intense light, co2 and extra ferts. But again, those plants in your tank are looking great

 

[thegoldengoose]

@Wills
Thanks! I’m really excited to learn more here!
I have realized my equipment is a huge factor as far as presentation goes. It’s bulky and stands out and I’m not sure how to change that. Glass lily pipes would be nice, although I’m trying to figure out where to get decent ones that aren’t crazy expensive. The other thing is that I spent a decent amount of money on a Penn Plax Cascade canister filter, and I’m not sure if I could attach the lily pipes to that? I’d love to because it would streamline the tank a lot more, but I’d rather not have to purchase another pricey filter. (college zaps the money outta you)
The other thing I’d like to upgrade to/DIY at some point is a rimless tank. I know most aquascapers use them but I’ve had an impossible time finding any I could possibly afford/are available in my area. Maybe I could “de-rim” a tank? Not sure that’s possible but I had that thought. I need a new tank anyway. The 10-gal one I have is borderline close to leaking. I got it for 3 dollars at Goodwill, and it was a steal but at the same time, I’m not sure it’s the most safe/quality long-term.

Yeah, I knew something was off with the Madagascar lace. When I ordered the plants, I hadn’t done enough research about what I should get, then I got overly excited and eager and just bought a whole bunch of random plants. They didn’t work together, as is apparent. I need to order some more. Where do you recommend ordering plants? I’m hoping to find some healthy plants that are somewhat affordable (you can see the trend here —affordability is key for me).

As far as lighting, I currently have a Nicrew LED (380 lm, 6 watts) from Amazon. It had good reviews and was the most I could afford at the time.

Thanks, I’ll keep in mind what you mentioned about CO2.

I’ll probably end up getting some good plants (and actually planning a scape) and getting some hardscape. The stuff I have is rock I found on a hike. I haven’t used it in my fish tank, only in my tanks for frogs and crabs. I need to get some of the more standard scaping rocks maybe. So it’ll actually look good.

Thanks a lot for your advice and for taking the time to reply! I seriously appreciate it!

~thegoldengoose

 

[thegoldengoose]

@Byron

Haha, thanks! I appreciate the encouragement. I was getting pretty discouraged with how it looked for a while.

What you said about high lighting and CO2 is interesting to me. It does make sense. I love the lush aquascapes, but my foremost priority is my fish. I want to make sure they have a healthy, stress-free environment. I’m fine with going for a more “natural” look (less high lighting and bright colors). I just want it to be beautiful and look somewhat nice. Not messy-looki like mine was.

I really like those tanks of yours! They’re natural looking, but still neat. Very beautiful! I’ll have to save them for inspiration.

I think from what you said, I definitely want a tank more catered to my fish than plants. So perhaps I’ll focus on that first, and then maybe somewhere down the line I can do a scape with just plants.
I initially started with plants because I wanted a healthy and natural environment for my fish, and I don’t want to do anything to harm them or stress them.

Thanks for your advice!

~thegoldengoose

 

[thegoldengoose]

@mbsqw1d
Well, thanks. I tried to keep them trimmed and healthy. Just need ferts now, I think. They stopped growing as nicely after a while.)

Hmm... I never thought about that, but I guess you’re right. They probably are edited. But they still do look gorgeous! Hehe

I totally overlooked that. Probably do need to get a black background. I heard it helps some fish be less stressed?

 

[Byron]

Plants without question do imprve water conditions which is good for fish. Floating plants are the best for this, because they not only take up incredible levels of nutrients (including ammonia) but they provide shade. Most of our aquarium fish occur in shaded waters and overhead lighting can be stressful. You will note that all of my tanks have substantial floating plant cover, and with very good reason. The fish are healthier.

And yes, a plain dull black background will improve not only the appearance but the fish. I use black construction paper taped to the outside.

 

[thegoldengoose]

@Byron

It’s funny because floating plants are the only ones I didn’t get. With my next order of plants I’ll definitely snag some.
I also had the thought, like you said, that such intense lighting must be stressful for fish. I noticed my betta, especially, hiding out deep in the plants. Maybe because the lighting is so bright.

You mentioned earlier about the water being hazy. I had gotten it super crystal clear for a while, and I think the camera quality either was bad or the lighting was making it look hazy. Either that or the picture may have been taken right after I cleaned it. I tried my best to keep water quality good. (I do need to replace my filter media now tho, because my water has gotten way hazier.)

 

[mbsqw1d]

Also when 'fish come first', it can be quite rewarding when for example, you add leaf litter and wood, not just for the presentation, but because your fish will be happier for it. Same with floating plants such as frogbit. Knowing your fish are enjoying these pieces adds to the enjoyment IMO

 

[Byron]

@Byron

It’s funny because floating plants are the only ones I didn’t get. With my next order of plants I’ll definitely snag some.
I also had the thought, like you said, that such intense lighting must be stressful for fish. I noticed my betta, especially, hiding out deep in the plants. Maybe because the lighting is so bright.

You mentioned earlier about the water being hazy. I had gotten it super crystal clear for a while, and I think the camera quality either was bad or the lighting was making it look hazy. Either that or the picture may have been taken right after I cleaned it. I tried my best to keep water quality good. (I do need to replace my filter media now tho, because my water has gotten way hazier.)

OK. Do not resort to water clarifiers though, these are harmful to fish. Bacterial blooms can occur sporadically. I always see slight haziness after a water change, nothing to worry about.

Betta live among floating and overhanging vegetation in swamps and ditches and such. Without floating plants they are going to be somewhat stressed because what they "expect" is missing.

 

[thegoldengoose]

@mbsqw1d

Yeah, it really is! Seeing my fish happy gives me the biggest smile and sense of accomplishment. I really do love my little fish. The betta, especially has personality and I love him as much as I would a dog or cat. I never thought you could become attached to fish until I got into the hobby.

I’m hoping to set up a black water tank for my betta, because they look fantastic in them and I’ve read that it’s a preferable environment for bettas. Idk if there are controversial opinions about that or not...

 

[thegoldengoose]

OK. Do not resort to water clarifiers though, these are harmful to fish. Bacterial blooms can occur sporadically. I always see slight haziness after a water change, nothing to worry about.

Betta live among floating and overhanging vegetation in swamps and ditches and such. Without floating plants they are going to be somewhat stressed because what they "expect" is missing.

Yes, I’ve heard that water clarifiers are harmful. Anyway, I want overall water quality and not just appearance. Natural water isn’t crystal clear all the time anyway.
I’m going to get some floating plants ASAP for my betta. Thankfully, I have the plants floating in the bare-bottom tank at the moment (waiting for the upgrade!) so he has lots of stuff to hide in.