How To Prep Tank For New Fish After One Died?

[thisguyindenver]

Hello all! Just joined... Briefly, we got a betta from a big box pet store mid 2005 and put him in a big glass bowl (4 gal or so). He died about 10 days later - after searching around at the time I found out that those fish weren't usually very healthy in the first place so it wasn't really our fault.

Discovered the merits of the LFS and bought another betta. Kept him in the same bowl for about two years at which point we moved 1000 miles cross country. To move him we put him in a smaller (3/4 gal) "jar" and put him in a cooler to keep him more safe from temp fluctuations and drove those 1000 miles with him. He was fine! That was mid 2007. About six months later we got a eight gallon biorb. (Yes I know people's negative opinions regarding biorbs but we like it).

He got a fungus once over the 3 1/2 years we had him but overall he was extremely healthy. We did put 1/2 tsp of aquarium salt in every gallon of water as I'd read it was helpful in keeping disease/infection at bay. Well before we moved him cross country he stopped eating anything but frozen bloodworms but that was fine. It did seem like over the past year his vision was going as he would try to eat a bloodworm but miss it a few times. So overall he was quite healthy.

He was fine in there until a little over a month ago, all of a sudden he got dropsy. I treated him for two days with maracyn & maracyn 2. After two days of that he didn't seem to be getting any better so I got some clove oil to euthanize him if he didn't improve quickly. One night he was still eating and was quite active (surprising compared to other dropsy stories) but then in the morning he was on the bottom - on his side, never to rise to the top again. Just in case we euthanized him in a clove oil mix but don't think it was necessary. My feeling is that he was an old fish (we had him for over 3 1/2 years so he was probably 4+) and I think he just died of old age rather than a bacterial or other infection.

The question is what to do with the tank now. That was 5-6 weeks ago and it's been sitting sadly with water in it ever since. We'd like to "liven" it up once again, and need to know what we should do. It seems like he died of old age, but not sure if there's some bad bacteria or something left in the water. There's a little algae on the side and a little skin on the top of the water as the pump's been off. Do we need to totally clean it out/sanitize it? Or is it now pretty much cycled for new fish? Obviously we'd do a good water change and get rid of the algae first.

We're not sure about getting another betta or getting a few fish this time (we can talk about that later!) but the question now is what to do with the tank to prepare it for new life. Would appreciate any advice!

Thanks...

(feel free to tell me if I should have posted this to another forum or split it into an intro post and a help post)

 

[Inchworm]

Hi thisguyindenver

Welcome to the forum!

I'm going to move your thread into the New to the Hobby section since you will probably want to recycle your tank again. The members there can tell you about the newest method of doing this and help you get the job done.

I look forward to reading more of your posts in the future.

 

[Craster]

Unfortunately if it's been empty for 5-6 weeks, the bacteria in the filter will all have died off, so you'll need to cycle again. It's also probably worth replacing the water with fresh dechlorinated water and using the opportunity to give the inside a good clean.

 

[waterdrop]

Hi and Welcome!

I think a good start would be for you to describe the tank and filter to us in detail. If its still the 8g biorb you are talking about then it would be good to get all that communication clear for the members as there may be different "versions" of these things.

I'd be happy to start talking about fishless cycling and startup topics but there are members here who are quite familiar with and good with the biorbs specifically, so I'm going to hope one of them sees this. The main thing I'm thinking of is that as far as I can recall, some of the biorbs have undergravel filters and others not I think and this changes the picture a lot.

And I agree that for starters you're going to want to get all all of this taken apart and be cleaning everything in tap water, so that's another thing to be starting on. Also, reading the "pinned" articles at the top of this forum will be good to be getting started on if you haven't already.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[thisguyindenver]

Thanks you three for your responses!

To clarify the tank: It's an 8 gal biorb with the filter below the gravel. When we set it up we put down the biorb rocks (big sharp ones) and then a layer of smaller red gravel over them. There are two artificial plants and a rock in there as well.

So I should clean everything really well under just tap water. I wasn't sure if I should disinfect it or anything like that.

And is it BAD to do what I did with the gmaller gravel over the biorb gravel? Do I really need the biorb gravel at all?

In the meantime I suppose I'll clean it all out and start cycling...

Thanks!

 

[waterdrop]

OK, I've never really paid attention because I don't have a biorb but I could swear that some of the members here have written about switching out the undergravel filtration for some sort of more traditional filtration.. but I guess I'm not completely sure about that. I can comment that with any sort of undergravel filter, the gravel above the filter plate is the media and so is part of the design and usually needs to be very evenly distributed and not too deep. One of the common problems is debris building up under the plate, creating "channels" which then cause water to be pulled through the gravel in greater amounts in some places and hardly at all in other places, meaning whole areas of gravel stop supporting the bacteria trying to colonize there. So, how to keep the underplate area very clean becomes an issue. (In some non-biorb UGF setups the system is actually reversed to be a RUGF (reverse under-gravel filter) pushing water up through the gravel, thus keeping the underplate area cleaner.)

Hopefully some commentators will come along quickly so you can have as much info as possible for your decision, or perhaps someone will remember from the threads who it is who knows this biorb stuff!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Miss Wiggle]

hi there,

the gravel that comes with the bi orb is the filter media really! it's just a surface for the beneficial bacteria to grow on. one of the biggest problems people have is if the gravel has been mucked around with or the wrong depth of gravel is used it can inhibit the benefical bacteria's development and consequently cause poor water quality issues.

however before we get into the specifics of bi-orb's it's a good idea to make sure you have a reasonably sound understanding of the principals of cycling, so have a read of three links from my signature, 'The Nitrogen Cycle' Whats Cycling' and 'Fishless Cycling' There is some overlap between the three but they all give a different slant/perspective so giving them all a good read through will cover most of the bases. Let us know when you've read them and of course feelf ree to ask any specific questions you may have.

 

[thisguyindenver]

The tank is now empty and clean!

Waterdrop: I think I might repost the gravel question as a new post with Biorb in the title so it's visible!

Miss Wiggle: Yep I've read those three things. When we got the Betta originally and put him in the unfiltered 5 gal bowl we didn't know about cycling or anything. When we got the biorb we just moved the fish & gravel from the bowl to the biorb so all the bacteria came with it. Now I know a lot more about it and will do it correctly this time, hence all the questions.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Excellent, I can certainly see you want to do things right this time and I commend you for it. Just sometimes we launch into detailed suff and realise 5 confused posts down the line that the poster doesn't really understand what a cycle is, so best to direct you to a bit of background reading first!

The biggest problem people have with bi orbs is the filtration, basically it's not much cop! Undergravel filtration is just not as sophisticated a technology as the internal/external cannister filters that are in common use now and they're also not as robust, it's easy to get something small wrong like the depth of gravel and struggle to get the tank cycled.

So without a doubt the best thing you can do is to get a small internal cannister filter and use this in the tank, it'll probably only cost you £10 or so, the only issue is getting them to stick to the sides of the tank as they are generally designed for a flat surface, I'm not sure if you can get adapters but it might be worth a bit of investigation. However they don't actually need to be adhered, you can just have them hanging down the back, it's a little unattractive but is still functional.

You should then do a fishless cycle as per the instructions in the thread, the principal is the same with an undergravel filter as it is with a cannister, my experience is that they will cycle pretty much as normal but they just seem to be more problematic and slower cycles. No real evidence for that though, just a gut feeling from people's experiences on the forum.

 

[thisguyindenver]

So without a doubt the best thing you can do is to get a small internal cannister filter and use this in the tank

Thanks for your advice, but the initial draw to a biorb was that it's unique and looks nice and sleek. Adding a new filter really detracts from the look and I don't think it's a step that we want to take at this point. Don't get me wrong - I absolutely understand the benefits of a better filter - but I'm more looking to draw on the experience of biorb owners who use them as is, or close to it. We did have a 2 year old betta in the tank with a media setup that nobody would recommend and he lived to be 4+ so we couldn't have been doing everything wrong! Not sure what we're going to do...

 

[vinylman]

Are you married to the BiOrb?. For a third of the price, you can buy a decent sized AquaCube (complete with filter and heater) that will give a fish much more swimming space, which is something a BiOrb can't give them.

 

[jennybugs]

The filtration of these tanks is fine IF you stock accordingly. I have been doing so successfully for some time now

 

[Miss Wiggle]

no i can certainly understand that, you can certainly proceed with the existing filter it's just a case of being aware of the tanks limitations and stocking accordingly.

i agree you must have been doing something right with the betta living 4+ years, in the wild they're really considered an annual, most last 2/3 years in home aquariums.

in that case what I'd suggest is you start off a normal fishless cycle adding liquid ammonia, you'll need to be very stringent with your testing to get an early warning of things that may go wrong. If you're unsure we can help out, if you post up your results onto this thread every couple of days then we'll keep an eye on thigns for you.

start to think about stocking as well, there's a few basic rules really for a bi-orb

1 - stick to 1" of fish per us gallon. This is the normal guideline for stocking levels, in a normal tank with a better filtration system you can push it up to 1.5 or 2", in a bi-orb this isnt an option, you've not got enough surface area (for oxygenation) swimming space (because of the shape) floor space (again because of the shape, fish claim floor space as territories) or filtration (because of the bio load) to cope with it. So stick fairly rigidly to 1" per gallon as your maximum amount.

2 - no aggressive/territorial fish. there isn't enough floor space for two territories so if you want a territorial fish it needs to be the only fish in the tank (as you can see this worked with the male betta)

3 - no bottom feeders like cories. the rough gravel media doesn't work for fish that are swimming along the floor a lot, they'll cut themselves on it, also as above, not enough floor space really.

4 - no active fish, nothing like danio's which while small needs a lot of swimming room, just don't have the space

That's enough pointers to start to get a feel for the stocking you should have in it, if you're really unsure then I'd recommend you go down to teh lfs and write down the names of every fish that you like, post them up here and we'll explain what's suitable, what isn't and why!

 

[thisguyindenver]

in that case what I'd suggest is you start off a normal fishless cycle adding liquid ammonia, you'll need to be very stringent with your testing to get an early warning of things that may go wrong. If you're unsure we can help out, if you post up your results onto this thread every couple of days then we'll keep an eye on thigns for you.

I didn't forget about you guys! It took me forever to find ammonia - I was stopping at any hardware store or home place that I went by and they all had coloring/scents/surfactants/etc. Finally found this stuff - it doesn't have the ingredients listed but it doesn't foam when shaken.

Miss Wiggle I'm following your "add and wait" method.

I got it up to 4ish ppm Ammonia 5 days ago and I think it's just starting to drop back down. Hopefully in another few days the ammonia will be down and I'll add more and start checking for nitrites.

Will be sure to ask if I have questions!