How To Cycle This Tank?

zannster

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I had fish in my (ahem - uncycled) tank for two weeks. It was full. Now, I have returned all the fish, because I decided to go with a different kind of fish. I want to make sure that the tank is good for them before buying them.

Here's what I have now:

ammonia - between .5-1.0
nitrate - 20
nitrite - very high! like off the color scale
hardness - very (300)
chlorine - 0
alk - high (300)
pH - 8.4. (!)

Do these change much after the time frame is up? It took me like two and a half minutes to check everything.

So...being that I already have a ton of nitrite that needs to process, do I really need to go through a fishless cycle? Or should that part just straighten itself out over time? Do I need to keep feeding ammonia into it?

Also, considering that my water is a bit harsh, what might I do to tone it down for a community group of fish? (some fish I'm considering: pygmy/panda cories, harlequin raspboras, endler's livebearers, cherry barbs, sparkling gourami, lemon tetras)
 
Hi I am new to fishless cycling my self and I will soon be doing a fish-in to fishless conversion cycle myself (waiting for my larger tank to cycle before I move fish into it). So I will be following your post closely. However, I believe (and experts please correct me if I am wrong) that you do need to continue adding ammonia or the bacteria that you do have will start to die off. Basically, you have removed the ammonia source, the fish, so there is no more food for the bacteria. You need to replace the ammonia source with something or else your bacteria will have no food. I would think since you already have a nitrite spike you need to keep your ammonia levels at 3-4ppm untill your nitrite spike is finished and back to 0. But again please don't do anything untill the experts have a chance to reply. And thank you for this post, it saves me having to post it in a couple of weeks :thumbs:
 
what!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Here's what I have now:

ammonia - between .5-1.0
nitrate - 20
nitrite - very high! like off the color scale
hardness - very (300)
chlorine - 0
alk - high (300)
pH - 8.4. (!)"

oh my lord....so your tank is not cycled yet.so do a partial water change of 40 % in every 3 days until it lows down...
The Classic Approach
When setting up an aquarium, buy some cheap hardy fish and get the cycle started.
These fish have been given names like "Starter Fish". "Suicide Fish", "Disposables" and so on.

The purpose of these fish is to provide ammonia through respiration, fish waste, and decaying food. The ammonia allows the first set of nitrifying bacteria to colonize and to initiate the cycling of the tank.

During this time of cycling, ammonia and later nitrites will spike up to dangerous levels for the little creatures. Some of them survive the harsh welcome but will not live out their full potential. Of course a few exceptions are tolerated within this rule.

The cycle is complete as soon as ammonia and nitrite levels are nolonger measurable by test kits. This classical form of cycling takes anywhere from 30 to 45 days.

Another Form of Cycling the Aquarium is without Fish
Set up the tank with all the equipment needed (filtration, heater, light, protein skimmer for marine and reef tanks). Start it up, setting the heater to a temperature around 80 F, then simply feed the tank with fish food. The decaying food will release ammonia and the tank starts the cycling process. To further speed up this process the tank can be seeded with gravel from an existing tank, filter cartridges from established filters, filter media of any kind, biowheels, drift wood, rocks, all taken from established tanks.

Bacteria colonize all of the above, so seeding basically means the introduction of existing bacteria colonies into a new tank. The decaying food will provide ammonia for these colonies to settle and expand in the new tank.

The time frame of this method does not vary much with the time needed using the classical form of cycling. The ammonia produced might also be insufficient to create enough bacteria colonies to hold the fish when they are introduced. This will trigger another growth of bacteria with the spikes in ammonia and nitrites.

These renewed spikes however will be much shorter and less intense compared to the initial ones experienced during the primary cycle. Consequences for the fish are minimal, making this at least fish-friendlier.

Both forms of cycling have one thing in common - Ammonia.

Remember that a tank has cycled if ammonia and nitrites are back at 0 ppm. At this time you can stock the tank with fish. If no fish are introduced, the bacteria will need to be fed by continuing with the addition of fish food or pure ammonia as outlined below.

Using Pure Ammonia to Cycle the Aquarium
Instead of using fish food for ammonia production, we can also introduce pure ammonia to the tank.

After the tank has been set up (see above), add 5 drops of ammonia per 10 Gallons into the water on a daily basis.
Ammonia will rise to 5 ppm and higher. As soon as nitrites are measurable, reduce the ammonia input to 3 drops per day. Nitrites will rise to similar levels. Keep adding 2-3 drops until the measurements of ammonia and nitrites come out with 0 ppm. The tank has then completely cycled.

Seeding the tank can significantly enhance this process. 7 days for a complete cycle are not unheard of; otherwise this methods takes 2-3 weeks.

The bacteria colonies, using this method, are certainly large enough to handle a well-stocked aquarium.

Some aspects to consider

The tank has to be well oxygenated as the bacteria require oxygen

The ammonia used should be free of any perfumes and additives

Do not treat the water with conditioners that remove ammonia

Water changes are only necessary if the ammonia and nitrite levels are far off level, which should only occur if more than 5 drops is used per 10 Gallons of water. After the cycle has been completed use activated carbon to remove any possible perfume or additives, which might have been in the ammonia.

After stocking your tank with fish, general maintenance of the aquarium is all that is required. The bacteria will adjust to the fish load and if you plan to add new fish the bacteria will have to adjust again.

Keep in mind to feed your tank with ammonia until you introduce fish. The waste generated by your fish will then provide the tank with all that is needed to balance the environment.

With this method, all aquarium types can be cycled in a very short period of time.

Professionals use the ammonia drop method to keep live sand and rock alive, which they sell in their stores.

We recommend you read about the nitrogen cycle so you have an understanding about what happens during this cycling period. You will also need ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate test kits to perform your daily testing of the water.
 
Thanks. I didn't say it was cycled. I just said that it had fish in it for two weeks (pumping in ammonia), and I wondered where in the process to pick up. I assumed it wouldn't take quite as long as it would for someone with a fresh, new tank.
 
rebrn - here is some other advice I got (from Diana on fishgeeks):

ammonia - between .5-1.0 This is a low level as far as growing nitrifying bacteria, but a toxic level for the fish. Keep adding ammonia to read 3 ppm (details in my signature) to continue the fishless cycle. (Read my note about your nitrite level, before adding ammonia)

nitrate - 20 This is as high as I would want to see Nitrate in a tank with fish. Not a big deal for the nitrifying bacteria while you are doing the fishless cycle. This is one of the tabs that it is very important to read at the right second.

nitrite - very high! like off the color scale Too high nitrite can stall the fishless cycle. Try a 90% water change, and re-test. Do another 90% water change and test again.... When the level is under 5 ppm this is good. Then add more ammonia to bring the ammonia back to 3 ppm.

hardness - very (300) Also called General Hardness, and also read in German Degrees of Hardness. (300 ppm = 17 German Degrees of Hardness) Check the instructions. If it took too long to get to this the reading might be too high. Anyway, this is a good level for Rift Lake Cichlids, many livebearers and certain Rainbows. Not good for most of the soft water fish.

chlorine - 0 Good

alk - high (300) This is carbonates, and this buffers the pH. With this much carbonates it will be just about impossible to change the pH of this water. See the other article in my signature. To keep the soft water fish you may end up getting a reverse osmosis filter and mixing about 9 parts RO to 1 part tap water. Carbonates are also measured in German degrees of hardness. Same conversion factor.

pH - 8.4. (!) Might be a too-high reading based on taking too long, but this is consistent with the KH (Alkalinity) reading.

I would test the tap water to be sure that these readings are not from some rock or the substrate in the tank.
Please post tap water test results.

You do need to continue the fishless cycle. Nitrites are toxic to the fish, and your filter needs to grow the species of bacteria that will keep on top of the nitrites and keep turning them into nitrate. Might be just another week or so to finish out the fishless cycle.

Here is what I would do:

1) Test tap water and post results.
2) Do a REALLY big water change, and re-test the nitrite. When it is under 5 ppm (as low as .5-1 ppm is fine) then add enough ammonia to bring the ammonia reading to 3 ppm. Maintain 3 ppm by adding ammonia daily. Keep an eye on the nitrite and be ready to do another water change if it approaches 5 ppm again.
3) If the tap water is really hard and alkaline, then look into fish that thrive in that water.
OR
3) If you want to keep soft water fish then invest in a RO unit for the fish at least, and perhaps for the whole house.
OR
3) If the tap water is a lot softer, closer to neutral pH then lets figure out why the tank water is so different
 
Hi zannster (if you decide to pop back in!)

Yes, excellent advice from the Diana person you found, basically agree with all of it. Do you have a good liquid-based test kit? Were you able to find good household ammonia that doesn't foam? Your high pH of 8.4 is within the optimal range (8.0 to 8.4) for growing our two species of bacteria. You want the temp to be 84F/29C and its good to have good movement of the surface water, just as it would be with fish. Our working document is by rdd1952 and is in the Beginners Resource Center, but its good to keep a thread going with questions as other issues can come up.

~~waterdrop~~
 
Do you have a good liquid-based test kit? Were you able to find good household ammonia that doesn't foam? Your high pH of 8.4 is within the optimal range (8.0 to 8.4) for growing our two species of bacteria. You want the temp to be 84F/29C and its good to have good movement of the surface water, just as it would be with fish. Our working document is by rdd1952 and is in the Beginners Resource Center, but its good to keep a thread going with questions as other issues can come up.

Hi. I had not heard that about the pH. I have since mixed distilled water with my tap water to lower the GH/KH, and the pH is closer to 7.2 (varying between 7.2-7.8). My kit is the strip type, with everything except ammonia on one strip. I also don't have a heater yet, so the water temp is around 72-74F. I read through the cycling document here; it complements the other one I read very well. My tank isn't making a ton of nitrites though (as the cycling doc said). Each day, mine are around 1-3, which I am told is fine, since >5 can slow down the whole process.

Thanks!
 
Also, considering that my water is a bit harsh, what might I do to tone it down for a community group of fish? (some fish I'm considering: pygmy/panda cories, harlequin raspboras, endler's livebearers, cherry barbs, sparkling gourami, lemon tetras)

Hi,

Sorry, I haven't read all the responses, but just wanted to note that I have pygmy cories and harlequin rasboras and my tap water pH is over 8. The deal, though, is I used a pH probe rather than test strips that gave me exact numbers and well, my tap water, as I said was over 8, but my tank water was only in the 6 range. Seems once the fish and bacteria are in there, the pH lowers. (or at least in my case it has.) I found the test strips unreliable and impossible to tell the exact color.

Oh, and FWIW, my guppy tank was cycled until I added the pygmy cories and now it has higher ammonia again. I'm doing daily changes to keep it in check.

Best of luck!
 
Depending on the KH of the water, your pH will move with other factors rather easily. A low KH will let the nitrification process drop the pH like GuppyGoddess noticed happening to her. With a higher KH like I have, my pH is not as high as yours to start but it never moves at all either. The 300 ppm of GH is not too high for many fish but may be a bit high if you wanted to breed Amazon river fishes. As you will likely hear from everyone else, the strips are worse than useless, they are misleading.
 

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