How Much "medicine" Is Too Much

[BaylorPerez]

So i have several medicines i add to my tank on a weekly basis for algea, fin rot, sludge in gravel bed and overall fish health/fish stress.
But i am wondering how much is to much, i add about 60Mls(militers) per week, but is this to much? i also add 4 Ml(militers) of plant food(Co2/iron/phosphate/some fertilizer). I also guess thats where my algea growth comes from as well XD

 

[gmc1]

Regular maintenance on your tank will give you the need to have no chemicals in your tank.ideally you want zero chemicals in your set up.apart from carbon ferts if you need to dose your planted set up.

You have fin rot.algae and sludge because of your maintenance routine I would assume.this can be easily changed.

What is your water change routine?

 

[Akasha72]

can I ask why you add all of this? Do your fish have fin rot? do you have a specific algae problem in your tank? and what on earth is 'sludge' in the gravel?
 
 
All you should need to add to a healthy tank is dechlorinated water (at least 25% fresh every week) and plant fertilizer/co2 if you have live plants. Anything else should only be added if there is a specific problem. You should always try to find natural ways of combating algae - whether that be by the addition of algae eating snails/shrimps or fish if you have the space.
 
Excess phosphate in the tank can cause algae - Black beard algae being the main one that springs to mind. It is important to get the tap water tested for phosphate if you have a BBA problem as it can be high in the tap water (mine is already toxic at 1.2ppm from the tap and I have to run a phosphate remover) 
 
As to 'sludge' in the gravel, I can only presume you mean the fish poop as it rots down. You can remove this with your syphon when you do your water changes if it really bothers you but as a lot of good bacteria is living in this keeping your tank healthy I'd only recommend doing a light hoover over it. 
 
A lot of these products on the market are designed to make the manufacturers lots of money and most are not needed. Obviously, if you have illness in the tank it needs to be treated but using products as a preventative is only weakening the fishes immune system.
 
Hopefully that answers all your queries

 

[BaylorPerez]

sludge in the gravel, from what i can assume from the feel is like rotted food almost like fertilizer, my water is cloudy from the algae what i have ( orange/redish, and black algae on my ornament). uhm i change 20-40% water every 2-3 weeks, do my gravel pump to change the water, pouring 30% back in then taking my gravel pump and finishing the gravel, then pour the remaining water back into the tank once i take the chloroine out of it.
 
Once that is done i put in the Stress+zyme as its needed to calm my fish and add more helpful bacteria that may of been removed from my gravel bed, the Fin rot is because of the nitrate level that i had before i put the fin rot/cold sore medicine into the tank.
 
As for the Plant food my tank is a planted/Potted plant one, i was unsure of which brand to buy so i had bought the API brand for plant food.

And what types of snails/shrimp eat algae for a freshwater tank

 

[Akasha72]

okay, so there should never be any food waste rotting in the tank. If there is you are feeding far too much. Only add enough food for the fish to eat in 30 seconds to a minute. If there is surplus food uneaten after this time cut down on how much you add. 
Fish poop is different. Fish poop like every living creature on the planet but this poop is a good fertilizer for your plants. It'll also be broken down by bacteria in your substrate. I personally never clean my substrate as I have sand and my snails are doing all that for me. I have Malaysian trumpet snails that live in my substrate and I have zebra nerite snails eating algae off my glass, plants and wood. A lot of the guys on here have shrimps too. They are great tank cleaners.
 
I used to use stress-zyme myself years ago, until I worked out this was just a ploy by API to make money out of me. The jury is still out on these bottled bacteria products as to whether they are just an expensive gimmick or they actually do anything. There are only two you'll find recommended on this forum, one is Tetra safe start and the other is Dr Tim's one and only. These are the only bottled bacteria products that are proven to work. You should only need these products if your tank and filter are brand new. Once a filter is cycling the tank they are no longer needed.
 
On to your water change routine which I'm struggling to make sense of. You really need to change 25% of your water weekly - that is the minimum we recommend. Many of us change larger amounts but this is dependent on stocking. If a tank is slightly over stocked then changing more water is recommended. If it is lightly stocked 25%  is fine.
You need to use your syphon to suck out the old water into buckets (or what ever vessel you have, I use buckets personally) this old water needs to be discarded. You need to draw off fresh, temp matched clean water into your bucket(s) and add dechlorinator. Then you can add it back slowly so not to stress the fish.
 
The cloudy water you mention sounds like a bacterial bloom and so changing larger amounts of water each week will help this to clear. I'd recommend upping the amount to 50% until the water clears. It should also bring down the nitrate level you mention - unless you have nitrates in your tap water. Nitrates should ideally be below 60ppm. Although many members will advise they should be below 40ppm. 
 
To be able to help further with the algae I'd suggest getting both the tap water and tank water tested for phosphates. You may need to start running a phosphate remover if it is too high in your tap water but you need to get it checked first. This is not something you can guess at and live plants do need some phosphate as food so removing it entirely is a bad thing
 
Can you let us know the tank size, the stock, the pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings, and a phosphate reading too if you can get one. If you have a helpful lfs they may do this for you for free or a small charge.

 

[StevenF]

You should only add meds when you have a problem and discontinue use when the problem is solved.  Furthermore adding a bunch of stuff to the water can cause more problems and may actually make the fish sick.  Most people just cycle the water (most once a week),  vacuum the poop from the gravel, teat tap water to remove chlorine.  Also most simple aquariums not need to be fertilized for plants.  The food and tap water should have most of what the plants need.  
 
In my case my tap water is too hard so I have been using RO water instead.  RO water is so pure that plants will die (no iron,calcium, magnesium, zinc etc.).  SO I do add  micro fertilzer to correct that (Seachem Flourish).  I cycle water once a week.  Vacuum the substrate when needed.  Nothing else.  I have never had to treat my fish with  meds and currently don't have any aquarium meds in my home.

 

[NickAu]

 
You really need to change 25% of your water weekly - that is the minimum we recommend.

Agreed,
 
Do not be afraid to change water, I change 50% a week and all I use is Easy Life Fluid Filter Media, both the  2 foot 18gal and 6 foot 100 gal are heavily planted and vacuuming is near impossible in them so I don’t bother, However I do have MTS ( Malaysian Trumpet Snails ) and 2 Mystery Snails (  Pomecea Bridgesii (sp) do not eat plants ) and they take care of the sludge in gravel and the live plants help too, I do not use any fertiliser in my tank, I feed the fish, They poop the snails plants and bacteria break it down I change water .  For example my Low Tech Betta tank nothing fancy and I doubt it would win TOTM ( Tank of the month ), But I like it My Betta seems to love it so do the 9 Kuhli Loaches 6 Corys 2 Mystery Snails Unknown number of MTS and shrimp.  In fact I am technically overstocked, Yet it works because of good maintenance good filtration and because of the type of fish I have. 
 
The cleaner you keep your water the less problems you will have.

 

[BaylorPerez]

I guess my question is, what brand do i get for a dechlorinator

 

[Byron]

I guess my question is, what brand do i get for a dechlorinator

 
That should depend upon what you need for your tap water.  If you have chlorine, and/or chloramine, most conditioners will detoxify these, it will say on the label.  Many also detoxify heavy metals.  I would not go beyond this, unless you need to, by which I mean, if you have ammonia, nitrite or nitrate in your tap water, then a conditioner that deals with these (whichever) is advisable.  But only if these are present in the tap water.  To explain why, I will harken back to what other members have said about not adding medications, chemicals, etc when not needed.
 
Freshwater fish continually take in water by osmosis through their cells.  This is their equivalent of our drinking, except for fish it is a continual process 24/7.  Anything and everything added to the water is thus getting inside the fish, in its bloodstream and internal organs.  As well as this, there is the gill process during which substances in the water can be transmitted into the bloodstream and some can harm the gills.  Every additive and substance is adding more dissolved solids to the water, and these obviously get inside the fish.  All of this can have a very serious detrimental effect on fish.
 
Increase your water changes to at least once a week (once weekly should be adequate, assuming the tank is biologically balanced, not overstocked, not being overfed, etc.).  The more water you change, the better.  I would suggest no less than 30%, but 50% is going to do more good and may be necessary, again depending upon the tank size, fish load, species, foods, etc.  Vacuum the substrate in the open areas, though this too can vary.  And rinse out the filters regularly, again depending upon the tank/fish and filter.
 
Back to the conditioner...once you have determined what you need, most any brand that provides those will work fine.  If you want to ensure cost efficiency, calculate the amount of conditioner needed against the price; some like the API that may seem expensive are actually extremely inexpensive, as they are highly concentrated and you use very little.  And here again, the less "stuff" entering the water, including conditioners, the better the fish will be.
 
This is echoing others, but never add medications or treatments for disease to an aquarium with live fish unless it is absolutely necessary for a specific health issue.  Never use algicides or chemicals that kill snails.  Plant fertilizers are fine if they are needed, but do not overdose.
 
Byron.

 

[BaylorPerez]

With my plant food that i add daily, due to smaller doses being advised for fish health and plant health per the 20Gal tank.
 
Also with my conditioner i bought, it is Stress coat rather than the stress zyme that i originally bought..
Which would be better to use when adding new water? stress coat or stress zyme?

 

[Byron]

With my plant food that i add daily, due to smaller doses being advised for fish health and plant health per the 20Gal tank.
 
Also with my conditioner i bought, it is Stress coat rather than the stress zyme that i originally bought..
Which would be better to use when adding new water? stress coat or stress zyme?

 
I myself would not use either of these named products.  
 
API Stress Zyme is not a conditioner at all so it will not detoxify chlorine/chloramine and one or both of these will certainly be in your tap water in the USA.  As for their claim that this product somehow cleans an aquarium, reducing aquarium maintenance, nothing can replace or is better than a good water change.  I'm not saying this product will kill your fish, but there is no reason to use anything that messes around with the natural biological system and it is always safer to rely on nature rather than adding substances.  Again, it is a question of these solids getting into the fish.
 
API Stress Coat does detoxify chlorine/chloramine, but this is one of a few conditioners that contain aloe vera, and there is not a shred of scientific evidence that this is beneficial.  Quite the contrary.  Aloe vera in the water means aloe vera gumming up the fish's gills and entering the fish.  Not good.  Having said that, use up the bottle you have but i wouldn't buy more.
 
API's Tap Water Conditioner is about the best conditioner available.  I have been using this for over a year now.  One millilitre treats 20 gallons; there is no other conditioner this concentrated.  Plus it detoxifies chlorine/chloramine and heavy metals, nothing more.  I mention it since you seem to be used to API's products.
 
Byron.

 

[BaylorPerez]

on the bottle i bought it says it detoxifys chlorine/chlorinamtes, and yes it does add aloe vera, unknown why it says good for fish health next to the aloe vera

 

[Byron]

on the bottle i bought it says it detoxifys chlorine/chlorinamtes, and yes it does add aloe vera, unknown why it says good for fish health next to the aloe vera

 

Well, even the reputable companies are in business to sell their products.  They make the aloe vera sound like a good thing, but as I said, there is no evidence it benefits.  I used to use another conditioner, Nutrafin's AquaPlus, until another member pointed out to me that it contains valerian.  This was not on the label, so I went to the manufacturer's site, and sure enough, there it was, allegedly to "calm" the fish.  Now why would we want to be drugging our fish with this stuff?  Needless to say, I stopped using that product, and changed to the API Tap Water Conditioner.  Kordon's NovAqua is another that does about the minimum [= detoxifies chlorine/chloramine and metals], and I used this for years with no issues, but I found the API was much less expensive as it is so concentrated.

 

[BaylorPerez]

is seacham prime(supposed conditioner) the same as the stress coat just without the aloe?

 

[Byron]

is seacham prime(supposed conditioner) the same as the stress coat just without the aloe?

 
No.  Prime does a lot more.  It detoxifies chlorine/chloramine and heavy metals (as most conditioners do) but Prime also detoxifies ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.  However, here we get into another issue I have, concerning this so-called detoxification.  Ammonia is detoxified by being changed into ammonium, and there is no harm in that.  Nitrite and nitrate are detoxified by being bound somehow (Seachem admitted they did not understand how nitrate is bound).  In an aquarium that is functioning normally, biologically, these substances will be handled naturally by the nitrifying bacteria and there is no need to mess with this.  If these substances are present in the source water, being the tap water, then it would be beneficial to use Prime during water changes.  However, Prime should not be used as a "treatment" for ammonia, nitrite or nitrate in the aquarium itself.  This is because Prime only remains effective for 24-36 hours, after which the toxic substances again become toxic, plus it is not intended for this purpose.  It can help during cycling, with daily water changes, but not continued beyond that.
 
Edit.  Something occurred to me after I posted this, and that is another danger with these substances.  Sometimes, they can interact.  Prime for example is what is termed a reducing agent, and Seachem caution that Excel which is also a reducing agent should not be used together with Prime.  One has to be careful with what we add to an aquarium.