How Many Of You Use Salt?

[Annastasia]

No, I don't currently. Mostly because my Livebearers are in community tanks, and I doubt the Cories would like it when I caused them kidney damage.

 

[dwarfgourami]

No, I don't currently. Mostly because my Livebearers are in community tanks, and I doubt the Cories would like it when I caused them kidney damage.

Yes, but note that the original poster stated that he was *not* so much talking about mollies as about the other livebearers. And most of the posters on this thread are not denying that mollies need salt; this does seem to be the consensus of the forum. The thread as I see it is trying to establish whether it is beneficial to add salt for the sake of your other common livebearers, i.e. platies, guppies and swordtails.

 

[Annastasia]

Um...I just posted my opinion and responded to the original question? Apparently there is problem with that...so it's deleted.

Not talking about regular freshwater aquarium salt, but marine or livebearer salt...and not as much talking about mollies as they pretty much require brackish water. But....any opinions/experiences on them would be interesting as well.

 

[oscarwylde]

Who of you have had good luck with your livebearers (happy, thriving, and longlived) and are they in freshwater or brackish?

Not talking about regular freshwater aquarium salt, but marine or livebearer salt...and not as much talking about mollies as they pretty much require brackish water. But....any opinions/experiences on them would be interesting as well.

Thanks!!

i dont have great experience but to my best knowledge and what ive been told is to use one tablespoon of aqarium salt ( make sure what ever salt you use , that its pure and has not been treated) per twenty litres of water in your tank...then only add this ratio to the treated water you use in your water changes otherwise you can put to much salt in your tank and it could become detrimental to your fish.

 

[nmonks]

Well, since my fish are used to it, and seem to be doing fine, I'll probably continue to use the aquarium salt. I even put salt in my fry tank so I'll probably continue to raise them in salt, too.

This is very flawed logic. Remember that Simpsons episode where the locals invent a Bear Patrol?

Homer: Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm.
Lisa: That's specious reasoning, Dad.
Homer: Thank you, dear.
Lisa: By your logic I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.
Homer: Oh, how does it work?
Lisa: It doesn't work.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: It's just a stupid rock.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: But I don't see any tigers around, do you?
[Homer thinks of this, then pulls out some money]
Homer: Lisa, I want to buy your rock.
[Lisa refuses at first, then takes the exchange]

It's important to separate the fact two events or observations occur, from the fact that the two events or observations are connected, or that the one causes the other. Simply because you are adding salt, doesn't mean that the salt is keeping your aquarium healthy. It's much more likely that you are simply a good fishkeeper, providing healthy food, clean water, and sensible tankmates.

For the life of me, I can't understand the fixation many aquarists have with "aquarium salt". It's snake oil, pure and simple. Nothing wrong with using salt with brackish water fish (though use marine mix, not aquarium salt). Aquarium salt is a hangover from decades ago before people understood about filtration. Salt (supposedly) ameliorates the toxicity of things like ammonium, and hence the fish were healthier when it was used. But now we have effective filters, and everyone knows the importance of regular water changes. So adding the salt serves no purpose. At the low concentrations people talk about ("a teaspoon per gallon") it will have no effect on whitespot or fungus, and it certainly doesn't have any effect on bacteria and internal parasites. High salt concentrations (i.e., brackish water, SG 1.005 or so) will fix a variety of infections, particularly fungus, but this isn't what people seem to be doing with aquarium salt.

Cheers,

Neale

 

[guppymommy]

According to the instructions on the aquarium salt I purchased (Doc Wellfish's) the ratio is 1 rounded Tablespoons per 5 gallons of water. That is the ratio I have used.

I'm sorry if my logic is flawed (and I don't watch the Simpson's). . . I guess I've never been a logical person. I'm not sure what the Bear Patrol or Tiger Rock have to do with my salted aquarium, but my fish are doing fine. I SEE them, and SEE that the salt isn't producing negative results. Perhaps my logic is flawed, but my fish are not. Maybe the fact that they are doing fine (though one did die of dropsy a while back . . . Dropsy, to my knowledge and from the research I could find about it, isn't caused from using aquarium salt) IS due to my water changing habits and feeding practices . . . but couldn't it also be helped by the aquarium salt? Can you prove it DOESN'T help? Because, from what I've seen, it hasn't hurt.

I used the aquarium salt because it was recommended by the pet store where I purchased my fish. They use salt in their aquariums and that was an influencing factor, but reading the package is what sold me (guess my logic is susceptible to advertising claims as well ).

"Benefits provided by Doc Wellfish's Aquarium Salt
Doc Wellfish's Aquarium Salt provides essential electrolytes fish need to reach peak coloration and vitality. To maintain optimal fish health Aquarium Salt improves gill function, reduces stress, improves osmoregulation, and speeds disease recovery. No other product has such an extensicve history of proven results."

I figured if it helps reduce stress and improve gill function, it couldn't hurt. If I'm wrong, then I suppose all my fish will die and I'll know better next time. If they thrive and have no problems then I guess the claims of Doc Wellfish's product are valid.

Before you berate me for cruelty to my fish, life is about learning. This is no different. I don't want my fish to die, but I choose to continue using salt in my aquarium and it is MY choice. It isn't right for everyone, that is apparent by reading this thread, but so far, it seems right for my guppies. Would it be better to stop using salt? Maybe. Gradually (with the water changes I do every week) the salt would be gone from the tanks. I may choose to try that in the future, who knows? But for the time being, I will stick to my logic (flawed as it may be) and continue the practice of adding salt to my tanks.

 

[nmonks]

Guppy Mommy --

Please, if you re-read my post, you'll see I wasn't berating you! Look carefully, I even put it in bold: I said I think it more likely you are good fishkeeper. In other words, I'm saying well done you, and the credit is yours, not the salt!

The "tiger rock" analogy is this. Lisa says to Homer, that arguing we have no tigers here because we have a tiger rock is false logic. Homer doesn't get this, and thinks the rock is magical, keeping tigers away. Lisa sees that the fact there are no tigers has nothing to do with the rock, even if you call it a "tiger rock". In other words, because something follows something else, doesn't mean they're connected.

Doc Wellfish is out to make money. The company used science-sounding words like "essential electrolytes" to make their product sound fancier than it is. Aquarium salt has been around forever, and at one tablespoon per 5 gallons of water, you may as well be using sugar or flour or dirt. It isn't going to make any difference up or down. Guppies can be adapted to marine conditions, so a bit of salt will do them no harm at all. If you like to add salt, then go ahead, I'm not stopping you. I'm just saying, give yourself some credit for being a good fishkeeper, and see the salt for what it is. Just salt.

Aquarium salt is one of my bugbears; it's like like activated carbon and zeolite, something retailers have convinced lots of aquarists to buy even though those aquarists have no idea how they work. In many cases they can have negative effects. Aquarium salt is bad for fish that are not salt tolerant (I repeat: your guppies are very salt tolerant, but lots of fish aren't). Carbon removes fish medicines, which has probably cost the lives of millions of fish when people didn't know to remove that carbon and wondered why their whitespot or fungus treatment failed. Zeolite inhibits biological filter growth, and once saturated, does noting to aid filtration at all.

So please, don't see me as being critical of you, I am honestly saying the reverse.

Cheers,

Neale

 

[guppymommy]

Neale,

Got it, thanks! As I said, I'm not a very logical minded person (and I'm being serious!) so I didn't understand what you were trying to say. I understand that retailers try to sell us stuff that we don't need (and so does Doc Wellfish ). I thought the salt would be beneficial, so I use it. I understand that it isn't for all fish. I also use a filter with activated carbon, but I did remove it to treat the dropsy. I am NEW at this so I DO appreciate the help.

So aquarium salt hasn't acutally been proven to do the things Doc Wellfish claims?

I know you said that in adding salt, I may as well be using sugar, flour, or dirt. Wouldn't sugar or flour in my aquarium kill my fish? But the salt doesn't, so I don't think it's quite the same thing, but I understand you are trying to make a point. The salt is unnecessary for most fish. But I'm just saying, it may not do the things that Doc claims, but it doesn't hurt either . . . and may help just a little bit.

 

[nmonks]

Sodium chloride, whether as aquarium salt or marine mix, does have a bunch of purposes. The following is a table of used modified from "The Interpet Manual of Fish Health", a slightly outdated but useful little book:

0.1% (1 gramme per litre): General additive for livebearers or in tanks where fish show physical damage (i.e., lesions, fin damage). Use in the aquarium.
0.3% (3 g/l): Reduces nitrIte toxicity or to treat physical damage. Use in the aquarium.
0.3-0.5% (3-5 g/l): To control Hydra. Use in the aquarium for no more than 5 to 7 days, then change water to gradually reduce salinity.
1% (10 g/l): To treat ulcer disease on coldwater fish. Acclimate fish gradually and then reduce salinity gradually once fish are cured.
2-3% (20-30 g/l): To remove leeches from pond fish. Use as a bath, with fish put into bath for 15-30 minute dips.

The authors go on to say that there are several cautions to using salt. First, not to use table salt. Second, "softwater" species in particular are sensitive to salt (commonly-kept tetras, catfish, loaches, etc.). Thirdly, increases in salinity should be gradual, over a few days, and if any fish appear distressed, they should be removed at once. Finally, plants may not tolerate salty water (this is not always the case, there are many brackish-tolerant plants sold as aquarium species).

So, in short, salt does have specific functions, and your guppies certainly won't mind it. If you live in a soft water district, it may even be helpful. But platies and swordtails are less salt tolerant (as I understand it) while mollies tend to want truly brackish conditions to prosper. Moreover, Doc Wellfish suggesting the use of salt in all aquaria is dodgy, and potentially risky, if your tank had clown loaches or Corydoras.

I was being slightly facetious about the sugar, flour, and dirt; my point is that one tablespoon per 5 gallons is a very low dosage of anything, and basically allows Doc Wellfish to sell salt in such a way it doesn't do any harm, nor much specific good.

Cheers,

Neale

So aquarium salt hasn't acutally been proven to do the things Doc Wellfish claims?

I know you said that in adding salt, I may as well be using sugar, flour, or dirt. Wouldn't sugar or flour in my aquarium kill my fish? But the salt doesn't, so I don't think it's quite the same thing, but I understand you are trying to make a point. The salt is unnecessary for most fish. But I'm just saying, it may not do the things that Doc claims, but it doesn't hurt either . . . and may help just a little bit.

 

[guppymommy]

Ah, I see. Thank you so much for the information! I had no idea. I'll be careful about purchasing things that claim to be good form my aquarium. I really appreciate you sharing this information. It's always good to be informed of the ins and outs of aquarium keeping. I love this forum because there are so many people willing to offer advice to "newbies" like me!

 

[stargirly1208]

i use tropical aquarium salt for freshwater fish and my guppies are doing really really well. i don't put too much in though, i use it mainly to relieve stress and prevent ich

 

[geezer]

don't use any salt here. I read in the pinned that you need to because it keeps them healthy.

I bought them without realising this .

Only time I use it is when fish get ill

I asked the bloke at the fish store about my mollies indoors, he said they don't sell fish in brakish water, it's all fresh, and that they do ok without it, no need to worry.

He said none of the Big Al's sell them in any salt either

Whether he was telling the truth or not is another matter

 

[nmonks]

While lots of places sell mollies as freshwater fish, this doesn't mean that the mollies don't really need brackish water. Take a look at the number of threads about mollies and fungus, or mollies and shimmying, or mollies mysteriously getting sick.

There's really no getting away from the fact that the commercially available fancy mollies all seem to have a bit of the brackish water species in them, and 9 times out of 10 do better in slightly saline water than in fresh. A lot of aquarium shops will tell you they are "freshwater mollies" because they want to make a sale, and telling people to add salt would put them off the purchase. After all, if you add salt, you couldn't keep neons or angels or gouramis or whatever.

Frankly, the hobby has been in denial about what mollies need for too many years. Mollies are among my very favourite fish, and it's sad to see them treated so badly.

Cheers,

Neale

I asked the bloke at the fish store about my mollies indoors, he said they don't sell fish in brakish water, it's all fresh, and that they do ok without it, no need to worry.