Horable Tank Condition!

[t1tanrush]

Your starving statement they are not near the same. A person's life is 100000X times more important than any animals life, period. This is just the way life should always work, however you extreme fish lovers " ZOMG MUST CARE FOR FISH NAO " feel the need to place an animals life as equal or more important than the lives of other people. You disgust me.

I must disagree with this, my last post in this topic however as it isn't at all fair on the OP.
This if looked into ties in with your earlier quote;

And everyones opinion holds equal weight.

Now i am certainly not the over zealous type but personally find the idea of any life being more important than any other fairly philisophical, you are obviously a humanist, but that doesn't make your opinion correct. Why does any life have to be more important than other? Human or otherwise?

Nitrogen cycle may happen I don't disagree, however doing it before stocking a tank is NOT a fact, fish can do FINE without doing that.

I don't understand this, if you accept that cycle exists, then you accept that fish produce ammonia which is converted by nitrosomonas N.O.B resulting in nitrite....
Yes?
Then do you debate the fact that nitrite and ammonia are harmful to fish?
Could you explain accurately your view of, or better, your understanding of tank cycling?

Anyhow, i can see this deteriorating, and after having one topic locked today (sticking up for yourself->Here.)
I'll leave it at that.

Its just basic morals that humans are to be cared for first and foremost. We need to look after our own reace over a 12 cent goldfish. The wild populations of fish are fine, but choosing a fish that is abundant and easily available is not worth a human life.
Yes indeed it does exist, I accept they produce ammonia which is converted ETC. However the idea of " no fish in the tank " really isn't that big of a problem, the tank won't take long to cycle and the fish won't be exposed to such toxins for a long period of time. Not to mention the toxins are a lower quantity then an unfiltered tank or a tank that lacks religious water changes.
I'll go look at the other topic see why it was locked lol.

Don't bother with t1tanrush, it's been proved on other threads he's just looking to start an arguement. You say all people should have their own opinions and not bother other peoples, but you call us people who care for each life equally disgusting? If you dislike the forum so much, leave.

Close the thread already.

Why close this thread? Because it disagrees with your views on fish keeping?
I stand up for all the people who think these standards are stupid. People like me get flamed and talked down to religiously if we do not accept the modern standards offered here. Like if someone offers advice and gets 2 peices of advice. 1 peice is what most believe and accept, the other is something out of the ordinary. The out of the ordinary one is labeled as bad advice, the person that takes the 2nd peace of advice is flamed for " if you don't want our advice don't ask for it ", and then told they only accepted what they wanted to hear.
I have been PMed before and thanked for being one of the few with the guts to say enough is enough. Yes I say all should have their own opinions, and they can express them, however the line is crossed when someone flames another because the person doesn't accept their opinion.
I don't dislike this forum, I dislike the "know-it-all" attitude a large portion of members display towards newbies to the hobby and the like.

 

[t1tanrush]

It is my opinion that hitting people with a hammer is ok. It's not by your standards but it's my opinion.
It's my opinion that it's ok to keep a baby in the same diappers for a week. It's not by your standards but it's my opinion.

It's the second time this week someone uses the opinion excuse on this forum. It has absolutly no value as an agument. It's just a cop out for people who have no real arguments or dont want to conced a point.
I think you can learn alot about a person by who it treats lesser/inferior beings. If a person is not mature enough to accept that owning fish or pets brings its share of responsibilities then they dont deserve to own them in the first place.
Placing importance on the life of fish does not mean your putting it ahead of human life. But showing no concern for other forms of life because human life is more important is tragic. Caring about life in general is something most people understand and it's one thing that makes us human.

Discarding the collective experience of the community with no concern for those affected is a shame.

Tra la la.
Your opinion goes against basic human morals in the first 2 examples.
There is no 100% way to keep fish, and your post there clearly states that you believe the common method of keeping fish is the only method, and for the rest of us who disagree we are just making excuses. I am no less responsible in the way that I care for my fish then you are with yours. My methods are different doesn't make it inferior.
I don't disregard the collective experience.
See what happens:
Member joins forum, asks questions, either takes the advice people like you give, and are accepted and spread the advice. Or they disagree and are ran out of the forum with insults and being told they are inresponsible. I have talked with several long time fish keepers who disagree with many common methods posted, however they simply don't feel the need to join internet arguments.

 

[K.J.]

I see a vast potential for yelling, and I already see some offensive posts being made - as said in the scientific section;

If you are very much into the debate at hand, 'take five' if you find yourself heating up. Avoid losing ALL your credibility by coming across as insulting. Besides, it could result in a ban or warning.

I think that's what we all should do. I don't see us as having a know it all attitude; if you disagree with our opinions, why not try expressing it in a polite non confrontational way, instead of saying "you disgust me," or considering everything we say as a personal attack. Many of the members here accept opinions and if they disagree with them, argue maturely. I truly am sorry you've run into the ones that don't.

However, there are things that have been proven to be necessary. Like cycling, stocking correctly, etc. Personal opinions should not have to be correct. But when you are taking the life of an animal into your hands, you should make sure you can have the best life possible for your animal. I once heard a quote, and while it isn't exactly appropriate for fish, I think it says something.

You are responsible, forever, for what you have tamed.

 

[t1tanrush]

I see a vast potential for yelling, and I already see some offensive posts being made - as said in the scientific section;

If you are very much into the debate at hand, 'take five' if you find yourself heating up. Avoid losing ALL your credibility by coming across as insulting. Besides, it could result in a ban or warning.

I think that's what we all should do. I don't see us as having a know it all attitude; if you disagree with our opinions, why not try expressing it in a polite non confrontational way, instead of saying "you disgust me," or considering everything we say as a personal attack. Many of the members here accept opinions and if they disagree with them, argue maturely. I truly am sorry you've run into the ones that don't.

However, there are things that have been proven to be necessary. Like cycling, stocking correctly, etc. Personal opinions should not have to be correct. But when you are taking the life of an animal into your hands, you should make sure you can have the best life possible for your animal. I once heard a quote, and while it isn't exactly appropriate for fish, I think it says something.

You are forever responsible for what you have tamed.

A great post here. I should make a post generalizing my concerns in a nicer fashion, rather than here.

 

[afishdude]

I see a vast potential for yelling, and I already see some offensive posts being made - as said in the scientific section;

If you are very much into the debate at hand, 'take five' if you find yourself heating up. Avoid losing ALL your credibility by coming across as insulting. Besides, it could result in a ban or warning.

I think that's what we all should do. I don't see us as having a know it all attitude; if you disagree with our opinions, why not try expressing it in a polite non confrontational way, instead of saying "you disgust me," or considering everything we say as a personal attack. Many of the members here accept opinions and if they disagree with them, argue maturely. I truly am sorry you've run into the ones that don't.

However, there are things that have been proven to be necessary. Like cycling, stocking correctly, etc. Personal opinions should not have to be correct. But when you are taking the life of an animal into your hands, you should make sure you can have the best life possible for your animal. I once heard a quote, and while it isn't exactly appropriate for fish, I think it says something.

You are responsible, forever, for what you have tamed.

or you can do what im doing, that is just reading it and laughing at you guys.

 

[t1tanrush]

I see a vast potential for yelling, and I already see some offensive posts being made - as said in the scientific section;

If you are very much into the debate at hand, 'take five' if you find yourself heating up. Avoid losing ALL your credibility by coming across as insulting. Besides, it could result in a ban or warning.

I think that's what we all should do. I don't see us as having a know it all attitude; if you disagree with our opinions, why not try expressing it in a polite non confrontational way, instead of saying "you disgust me," or considering everything we say as a personal attack. Many of the members here accept opinions and if they disagree with them, argue maturely. I truly am sorry you've run into the ones that don't.

However, there are things that have been proven to be necessary. Like cycling, stocking correctly, etc. Personal opinions should not have to be correct. But when you are taking the life of an animal into your hands, you should make sure you can have the best life possible for your animal. I once heard a quote, and while it isn't exactly appropriate for fish, I think it says something.

You are responsible, forever, for what you have tamed.

or you can do what im doing, that is just reading it and laughing at you guys.

I think this will be my last post in this topic. Laughing at us for having an argument? I guess if you where to do this in real life if you started laughing at me in a verbal argument I would frankly knock you out. As would most its extemely rude.
BTW you think your clever with your little dynamic sig don't you......

 

[K.J.]

I see a vast potential for yelling, and I already see some offensive posts being made - as said in the scientific section;

If you are very much into the debate at hand, 'take five' if you find yourself heating up. Avoid losing ALL your credibility by coming across as insulting. Besides, it could result in a ban or warning.

I think that's what we all should do. I don't see us as having a know it all attitude; if you disagree with our opinions, why not try expressing it in a polite non confrontational way, instead of saying "you disgust me," or considering everything we say as a personal attack. Many of the members here accept opinions and if they disagree with them, argue maturely. I truly am sorry you've run into the ones that don't.

However, there are things that have been proven to be necessary. Like cycling, stocking correctly, etc. Personal opinions should not have to be correct. But when you are taking the life of an animal into your hands, you should make sure you can have the best life possible for your animal. I once heard a quote, and while it isn't exactly appropriate for fish, I think it says something.

You are forever responsible for what you have tamed.

A great post here. I should make a post generalizing my concerns in a nicer fashion, rather than here.

I really can't tell if that's sarcasm, but yes, I think it would be a good idea to make a civilized post in Board Suggestions "issuing your complaints."

 

[t1tanrush]

I wasn't sarcastic I'm making a post shortly.

 

[K.J.]

Good.
I'll be sure to read it, and hopefully, our members will represent themselves in a civilized fashion. Remember people, this is a forum about fish, not flaming.

 

[kribensis12]

Finally, people stop arguring.

 

[t1tanrush]

Finally, people stop arguring.

ITS A TARP!

¬_¬

 

[kribensis12]

Okay then.

 

[Scotch_Egg]

Im sorry but most of you are silly. Its a pointless argument on someones opinians. I get both sides but Titan has his ways of fishkeeping and everyone else has their ways. theres no point in "debating".

 

[Darkstar]

if you started laughing at me in a verbal argument I would frankly knock you out

quite a presumptuous statement considering you have no idea who you are talking to...I think it's better to say 'you might try and hit them and hope for the best' as they might turn round a drop you.

 

[darknirvana217]

i had a teacher that did something similiar. she hardly ever took care of her saltwater tank in my marine biology class. One week she put in about 20 baseball sized urchins into a 12-15 eclipse tank. The urchins died ove rthe weekend and thus polluted the whole tank killing all of her fish and anemones. i did the best i could to help them, the substitute that day knew little if anything about fish. That ammonia was through the roof.