Hooray, But What Now? :)

[rodders666]

Ok,

This morning, just under 24 hours after latest (5th) full dose of ammonia my readings were Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.25, Nitrate 25(ish)
 
I dosed a full amount (6th full dose) and I'm going to assume I'll be cycled by tomorrow or latest the weekend.
 
Now, I am still looking for the perfect fish so between cycling finish and fish purchase would a full water change and full ammonia dose be needed, or would a snack dose be ok after the water change?

I don't want to overdo the ammonia, but I don't want to put too little amount in.
 
 
Thanks

 

[Ch4rlie]

If you are not fully stocking the tank immediately following the finished cycling process then you only need to add 'snack' doses of 1ppm ammonia every few days.
 
Though once you start stocking your tank, i would advise not to overstock or fully stock to the limit straightaway as the bacteria needs time to get back up to strength. So on that basis, would say to stock half the planned stocking then 6x fish at end of w=each thereafter, that way it is much safer to ensure the wellbeing of your new acquisitions as well the bacteria colony being given time to grow the colony to suit the bioloads.

 

[rodders666]

If you are not fully stocking the tank immediately following the finished cycling process then you only need to add 'snack' doses of 1ppm ammonia every few days.
 
Though once you start stocking your tank, i would advise not to overstock or fully stock to the limit straightaway as the bacteria needs time to get back up to strength. So on that basis, would say to stock half the planned stocking then 6x fish at end of w=each thereafter, that way it is much safer to ensure the wellbeing of your new acquisitions as well the bacteria colony being given time to grow the colony to suit the bioloads.

 
 
Thanks Ch4rlie, much appreciated. Assuming all goes as I think it will, I will do the initial large water change and snack dose.

I did only plan to add a few fish anyway as it's only a 20g long, then in a few months ad a group of neon tetra (I love those, I think they're underrated)


P.S. Love your tanks, and the new one added to the end of your other looks great

 

[Ch4rlie]

Thanks Ch4rlie, much appreciated. Assuming all goes as I think it will, I will do the initial large water change and snack dose.

I did only plan to add a few fish anyway as it's only a 20g long, then in a few months ad a group of neon tetra (I love those, I think they're underrated)

P.S. Love your tanks, and the new one added to the end of your other looks great

 

 
Sounds like a plan.
 
Only one note though, neon tetras tend not to do very well in newly set up tanks, so keep a close eye on the tetras if you get them.
They also prefer softer waters, may also help to have some plants and places for them to hide in so they don't feel so insecure and stressed.
But yes, they are a nice little fish to have and are underrated by many folks.
 
BTW, thaks for your kind comments on my new set up.

 

[rodders666]

 

Thanks Ch4rlie, much appreciated. Assuming all goes as I think it will, I will do the initial large water change and snack dose.

I did only plan to add a few fish anyway as it's only a 20g long, then in a few months ad a group of neon tetra (I love those, I think they're underrated)

P.S. Love your tanks, and the new one added to the end of your other looks great

 

 
Sounds like a plan.
 
Only one note though, neon tetras tend not to do very well in newly set up tanks, so keep a close eye on the tetras if you get them.
They also prefer softer waters, may also help to have some plants and places for them to hide in so they don't feel so insecure and stressed.
But yes, they are a nice little fish to have and are underrated by many folks.
 
BTW, thaks for your kind comments on my new set up.
 

 
Thanks Ch4rlie, I did say in a few months regarding the neons I know they like a more matured tank.

 

[Ch4rlie]

Yep, did note that you did say a few months on your previous post, I was re-instating these points to try and sort of let folks who may read this thread know that neons are not quite the easy starter fish as many LFS staff would let you believe.
 
But good on you for doing your research and having an idea of what is best for neon, i always respect folks who do their homework or ask questions regarding their chosen stocking plans

 

[rodders666]

Yep, did note that you did say a few months on your previous post, I was re-instating these points to try and sort of let folks who may read this thread know that neons are not quite the easy starter fish as many LFS staff would let you believe.
 
But good on you for doing your research and having an idea of what is best for neon, i always respect folks who do their homework or ask questions regarding their chosen stocking plans

 
Fair point, I wasn't being funny with you I just wanted you to know I didn't plan to put the little guys in straight away.

I've been out of fishkeeping a while so wanted to make sure I could get the tank properly cycled first. I'm lucky as I have about 5 or 6 really good independent fish stockists all within an hours drive round trip...plus 2 P@H 

 (there is a South African guy in the furthest P@H 10 minutes away who is a former independent fish store owner who's shop ironically went under because of a P@H opening near him

 but he knows his stuff).

I've had 5 tanks cycling in the past and that drove her mad as she doesn't get that side of it, she thinks it's water in fish in which is why my kids don't have a goldfish.

I'm like yourself in that I like the cycling part, it's weird how good it feels when it's done (like myself this morning).
 
My only issue now is picking the first goup of fish haha


When I find a decent tank (size/price) I am going to set up a species only tank for some Danio margaritatus (Celestial Pearl Danio/Galaxy Rasbora I can never keep up with their common name) as they are stunning little fish. I will definitely be doing a journal for that as since they first appeared I've wanted some, so it will be a labour of love that one.

 

[Ch4rlie]

When I find a decent tank (size/price) I am going to set up a species only tank for some Danio margaritatus (Celestial Pearl Danio/Galaxy Rasbora I can never keep up with their common name) as they are stunning little fish. I will definitely be doing a journal for that as since they first appeared I've wanted some, so it will be a labour of love that one.

 
This is what I have in my 3 foot 25 gal long tank
 
Generally most folks either call these CPD's, Celestial Pearl Danios or Galaxy Rasboras all are most acceptable, its just what your LFS calles them and you knowing what they are counts
 
I have 20 odd CPD's in that main tank (see my sig, tank in the middle) along with a dozen Lambchop Rasboras, amano shrimps, red cherry shrimps and a ton of various snails. Its been my pride and joy for the last 2 years, that tank
 
They are well worth having and at first, especially if in low numbers they are extremely skittish little fish, but once I'd built up their numbers to 20 + and being in that tank for some time and with no larger fish they have now become bold as brass and comes straight to the tank begging for food when they see me approach the tank Beautiful colourings, esp the males with their red fin and tail colourations, I can't speak highly enough of these little guys
 
Incidently in the other 2.5 foot tank, I have Emerald Danios, a close relation to the CPD's very similar in size and behaviour but completely differnt colours, still stunning nonetheless. (Note - do not mix Emerald with CPD's in the same tank, you will then run the risk of cross breeding.)

 

[rodders666]

No there will be no mixing. I think my plan would be similar to yours in that there will be a good size group of CPDs with some shrimp, but that is all.

 

[rodders666]

If you are not fully stocking the tank immediately following the finished cycling process then you only need to add 'snack' doses of 1ppm ammonia every few days.
 
Though once you start stocking your tank, i would advise not to overstock or fully stock to the limit straightaway as the bacteria needs time to get back up to strength. So on that basis, would say to stock half the planned stocking then 6x fish at end of w=each thereafter, that way it is much safer to ensure the wellbeing of your new acquisitions as well the bacteria colony being given time to grow the colony to suit the bioloads.

 
Ch4rlie, I need your help/advice. I ran into an issue, I was going to put my first lot of fish in but had a change of plan about the whole setup so I now only have 2 nerite snails.....but what do I do about the cycle? I don't want it to stall or crash, but with the snails being in I can't add snack ammonia now, can I?
 
Thanks.

 

[Ch4rlie]

Right, ok.
 
Whats the change of plan exactly?
 
Can you remind me when th elast dose of ammonia was?
 
Also when do you plan to add any new fish?

Nerites, are more sensitive than most snail when comes to ammonia, common, or MTS can withstand ammonia suprisingly as I know this diue to cycling tanks with these int he tank, but not with nerites.
 
They may be ok with small dose of ammonia, perhaps half the snack dose maybe, this is not tried and tested i warn you.

 

[Baccus]

Instead of continuing with adding ammonia to the tank with the nerites I would use something like algae wafers to provide the food source for the bacteria in the filter, after all the nerites will be producing a bit of ammonia in their waste but really hard to determine just how much and then try to work out any further ammonia doses on top. If you place the algae wafer in the tank for the nerites it will also provide them with some food if they aren't finding enough natural algae in the tank, I would probably only leave the wafer in for a few hours if the snails show no interest in it at all that is fine and it can be removed because the time that it was sitting in the tank should have been enough time to give the ammonia levels a bit of a boost for the bacteria in the filter, without in effect fouling the water.
 
Is the tank still going to in the future hold neon tetras or other soft water fish? If so then the nerites may struggle in too soft a water with their shell development/ growth.

 

[rodders666]

Thanks, I'll drop a couple of algae wafers in, one at each end as the snails have picked their spots it seems for now/. They venture about but I always see them back there.

I will monitor the snails as time goes on. Yes, neons are still the eventual plan. Is there any specific snail food which would help their shell? If it will cause them problems I'll take them back to the lfs.


Ch4rlie, I am removing the gravel substrate as I've decided to remove the silk plants and go planted instead so I have sand to go in. That's the major change.
 
The last full dose was on 20th May, then a full water change on 21st as all readings were as it should. I then added a snack dose on 22nd & 24th then added the snails on 25th. The snails have a bit more algae to get through as I left the lights on longer (12 hours a day) before I added them in as I was going to add some shrimp too but with my plants plan decided against them for now as I didn't want to disturb them when I re-scape the tank.

It was yesterday I was going to add some fish but they were out of stock in my lfs of the ones I wanted so I'm going to do the change then add some pygmy cory (I think) and maybe some rcs.

The sand I have is apparently really clean going off the reviews so that shouldn't take me long to clean up, then I'm going to take some of the tank water and put it in a small bowl with a small sponge filter with the snails in whilst I empty and refill the tank.

Would the snails be ok in there with a wafer for a day?

When I refill the tank ready with the plants etc should I do a full dose of ammonia to check, or would a snack still suffice?
 
I had replied to another post on another thread (below). Unfortunately due to my toddler falling ill I haven't had change to do anything just yet so today/tomorrow is the plan.
 
 

 

I firmly believe that the two things that will survive a nuclear holocaust is cockaroaches and Malaysian Trumpet Snails 

.

 
....and twinkies, right? 

Thanks. I am having a full rethink on my tank, I am fully cycled and have gravel in, but I'm going to switch to sand so tonight I'm draining the tank and removing the gravel. I'm going to try to save my mighty imp mts as he's a cute little bother. As there is only 2 nerite snails and my imposter I'm not overly concerned about causing any issues with my cycle, but do you have any tips?

I'm going for a dark sand in which my plants (java fern, anubias nanas & cabomba) can take further rooting through there from the bogwood they're on. The cabomba isn't on bogwood btw. I've had cabomba before and it grew for fun, so will be ideal for my "jungle" type vision I have.
I'm thinking of a group of pygmy corys then eventually my neon (or cardinal) tetra group. It's a 20g long.
 

 

 

[Baccus]

If puting the sails in other water even just for  a day while you change the substrate I would not add any food. Keep in mind the snails will continue producing waste and in a smaller container of water than their tank with  an algae wafer added the water can foul very quickly especailly if the snails have no interest in even eating the wafer.
 
While you are swapping substrates make sure that you can leave your filter running in a bucket of water (this you could dose with ammonia if the filter is not on what you have the snails in) otherwise if the bacteria are without food and water for too long they could all perish. Or if the holding bowl is suitable you could just keep the filter running in that for the day with the snails and then add an algae wafer, but keep an eye on it and if the water starts to foul remove it and do a partial water change on the bowl.
 
 
It might be also a good idea to do a gradual change over instead of a complete all in one stroke change. There is some debate about where the bacteria in tanks actually live, and I am in the camp of the bacteria live not only in the filter but also set up colonies throughout the tank on any hard structure that is not disturbed by tank inhabitants. There for in effect your current gravel could be harbouring some of the beneficial bacteria and by removing all  of it in one fell swoop you will in effect begin a mini cycle again.
 
Once you refill the tank, prior to adding the snails back you could redoes with ammonia after you have added chlorine/ chloramine remover and then test the water a bit later to see if the ammonia has all gone again. But I myself would just set everything back up, put the snails back in and then add a wafer. From their you can keep testing the water to see if you need to do any partial water changes to keep the cycle in check.

 

[rodders666]

Thank you, Baccus that's some good advice. I'm in no rush to add fish so I will do the change over and then do parameter checks and take it from there.