Holiday feeding, guppy fry & catfish

[Yarkii]

Hello all.

I haven't been in here much in the past few weeks. In that time I've bought some guppies (M & F) and julii cory catfish for my 220L planted tank.

In a few days I'll be going away for 10 days. I've bought some Vitalis brand '7 day freshwater holiday grazers'. I'm meant to stick them on the wall of the aquarium. I can't quite figure out whether the fish have to munch away at the feeders on the wall, or if it gradually breaks up somehow, and bits float around the tank.

Either way, I'm concerned about the catfish and the 9 or 10 fry that are currently in their own little breeding net inside the tank.

I do have loads of elodea in there, and an LFS lady told me the guppies will eat elodea. I also have anubias, banana lillies, milfoil, stricta, a little moss, and some kind of long grassy thing. I've placed a few plants (elodea, milfoil, blue stricta) in the breeding net for the fry, and have covered most of their net with lily pads as it can't be placed away from under the lights. I've been crumbling flaked food for the fry.

I guess I have four questions:

1. Will the holiday grazers be okay for ALL the fish in my tank, or only the adult guppies?

2. Will the fish be better off just eating the plants they've got?

3. Should I keep the fry in the breeder net or let them fend for themselves in the tank? They're so tiny; I'm afraid they'll BE the food if they're loose in the tank. Should I just pack lots of elodea in their net, and hope they can eat it?

4. Should I use one or two of the holiday feeder grazers? I have 15 adult guppies and 6 catfish, as well as the 10 or so guppy fry. My tank is 220L, minus the substrate etc. See photo below for the recommendations for feeding on the packet. (My number of fish - 21 adults + ~10 fry - suggests using only one, but my water volume suggests using two. These are for 7 days but I'm going for 10 days.)

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[Yarkii]

Oh! My water parameters from last night, which was five days after a 70L water change:

Temp 26C
pH 7.8*
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10ppm**
KH 6dH
GH 11dH

*pH is, I believe, somewhere between 7.6 & 7.8. It's always constant, whatever it is

** Nitrate orange colours were hard to read, but it was somewhere between 5ppm & 20ppm.


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[Byron]

I will never use any sort of slow-release food items. Fish will eat if food is present, to excess. Some people use automatic feeders but these have been known to malfunction and dump food in, killing fish from the ammonia/nitrite. Fish if healthy can easily go a week to 10 days without feeding. However, fry are different.

It would be better to find someone reliable to feed the fry. If it is not a knowledgeable fish person, measure out the daily amount into packets or containers. Too much food is as deadly as too little for fry.

Do a major water change the day before you leave. Make sure the lights are on a reliable timer--never leave the tank lights on permanently, this is a certain cause of severe stress. If no timer, no tank light would be better. Make sure no direct sunlight hits the tank.

One excellent food you can safely use are dried leaves, like oak, maple, beech. You can buy Indian Almond leaves in some fish stores. How these help is that they produce a lot of infusoria, and fish will eat this (grazing the dead leaves). This is something you should always use with fry, as it is the perfect first food. Stick a few in the fry net, and put some in the main tank. They will float at first but sink after they are waterlogged. Some fish will eat the leaves themselves (my barbs do), but that is fine.

Byron.

 

[Yarkii]

Thank you, Byron!

I will never use any sort of slow-release food items. Fish will eat if food is present, to excess.

I didn't know that. The guppies always seem so hungry, and I worry about underfeeding them if there are fry in the tank (worry that they'll seek out the fry to eat, in their hunger). I'm still working out the volumes to feed them. If I put in one 'pinch' of flake food, it's gone in a few seconds, before I put the container back down again. They chase the sinking food that I put in for the catfish, and try to treat it. At this stage, I'm giving the adult guppies around three 'pinches' of food (2 types of flake food, or dry blood worm lavae) three times a day. Every few days I'll replace one of those meals with a cube of frozen blood worms or frozen daphnia (sp?). Sometimes I'll peel & crush a couple of peas & pop them in.

The catfish have two types of sinking pellets/wafers. The guppy fry get crushed flake food or crushed blood worm larvae.

I did worry that the slow-release food might decompose at an unpredictable rate, and that I hadn't tried observing it yet. I was especially concerned because my pH is higher than recommended for use on the packets of a few of those types of food (not the one I bought, but it also didn't state that it was okay).

Fish if healthy can easily go a week to 10 days without feeding. However, fry are different.

It would be better to find someone reliable to feed the fry. If it is not a knowledgeable fish person, measure out the daily amount into packets or containers. Too much food is as deadly as too little for fry.

There really isn't anyone I could get to come in daily to feed the fry. There is someone I could ask to come in every few days, but even that might not be possible. If it was every few days, would that be enough for the fry, together with elodea and the leaves you mention below, if I can find them?

Do a major water change the day before you leave. Make sure the lights are on a reliable timer--never leave the tank lights on permanently, this is a certain cause of severe stress. If no timer, no tank light would be better. Make sure no direct sunlight hits the tank.

I'll do a big water change the evening before we leave. The lights are on a timer, so they'll be used to the timing of that. I'll keep the blinds closed so no direct sunlight comes into the room.

One excellent food you can safely use are dried leaves, like oak, maple, beech. You can buy Indian Almond leaves in some fish stores. How these help is that they produce a lot of infusoria, and fish will eat this (grazing the dead leaves). This is something you should always use with fry, as it is the perfect first food. Stick a few in the fry net, and put some in the main tank. They will float at first but sink after they are waterlogged. Some fish will eat the leaves themselves (my barbs do), but that is fine.

I'm trying to find a store that has these, but I wonder: would dry oak leaves picked from the ground beneath a tree be okay? How dry must they be? If they're on the ground, I guess I should wash them, but would a gentle rinse in a bucket of water be okay? What about oak leaves picked directly from the tree? I have a little Japanese maple tree; would these leaves do?

I've noticed that one LFS has Indian almond leaf liquid, but that won't do the same thing, will it?

Incidentally, are decomposing leaves from the plants growing in the aquarium good for the fish? I recently did some 'gardening' in the tank, cutting back most of the less healthy growth. In future, should I leave these bits, as fish food?

Also, if I do find suitable leaves as you've mentioned above, and pop some in the fry net as well as the main part of the tank, would that be okay to leave for the fry if I can't find anyone to feed them? Will I leave the elodea, stricta & milfoil in the net with them too?

Thanks so much, Byron.

Jacqui



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[Byron]

I'm trying to find a store that has these, but I wonder: would dry oak leaves picked from the ground beneath a tree be okay? How dry must they be? If they're on the ground, I guess I should wash them, but would a gentle rinse in a bucket of water be okay? What about oak leaves picked directly from the tree? I have a little Japanese maple tree; would these leaves do?

I've noticed that one LFS has Indian almond leaf liquid, but that won't do the same thing, will it?

Incidentally, are decomposing leaves from the plants growing in the aquarium good for the fish? I recently did some 'gardening' in the tank, cutting back most of the less healthy growth. In future, should I leave these bits, as fish food?

Also, if I do find suitable leaves as you've mentioned above, and pop some in the fry net as well as the main part of the tank, would that be okay to leave for the fry if I can't find anyone to feed them? Will I leave the elodea, stricta & milfoil in the net with them too?

Dead leaves means those that have died and fallen from the tree on their own, such as in autumn (primarily). "Dead" here means there is no liquid left in the leaf. I collect mine from under an oak tree in my back garden in the autumn. You can rinse them off, but I don't, except to remove dirt if any. Avoid leaves with bird droppings. I lay mine out on paper toweling to fully dry (externally, they are already dry internally being dead) and then keep them in plastic bags (the bags the fish from the store come home in are fine, rinse them and dry them and store them). Do not pick leaves from the tree, these are still alive and contain the natural sap which you do not want in the aquarium. Maple works, oak, beech...most hardwood trees that are deciduous should be safe, but I cannot guarantee it. Avoid all evergreen tree/shrub leaves, conifer needles, softwood tree leaves.

The IAL liquid is not the same, no. That is a tannin to create a blackwater condition, but not provide infusoria which occurs on the leaf itself when submerged.

Decomposing leaves on aquarium plants are best removed, some anyway. A couple won't hurt. Fish are not likely to eat these, though some may pick at them.

I don't know how long leaves continue to produce infusoria. Something I should try to research. The leaves do slowly decompose, sometimes very slowly. I usually pull out the skeleton leaves, but not always.

I didn't know that. The guppies always seem so hungry, and I worry about underfeeding them if there are fry in the tank (worry that they'll seek out the fry to eat, in their hunger). I'm still working out the volumes to feed them. If I put in one 'pinch' of flake food, it's gone in a few seconds, before I put the container back down again. They chase the sinking food that I put in for the catfish, and try to treat it. At this stage, I'm giving the adult guppies around three 'pinches' of food (2 types of flake food, or dry blood worm lavae) three times a day. Every few days I'll replace one of those meals with a cube of frozen blood worms or frozen daphnia (sp?). Sometimes I'll peel & crush a couple of peas & pop them in.

The catfish have two types of sinking pellets/wafers. The guppy fry get crushed flake food or crushed blood worm larvae.

I did worry that the slow-release food might decompose at an unpredictable rate, and that I hadn't tried observing it yet. I was especially concerned because my pH is higher than recommended for use on the packets of a few of those types of food (not the one I bought, but it also didn't state that it was okay).

I've no idea what the pH has to do with this... ??

I think you're feeding too much, generally. Except for fry, once a day is sufficient, and missing one or two days every week won't hurt. Fish should never be fed prior to any work in the tank, like water changes. Same principle as humans not eating before exercise. I use water change day for the "treats," a couple hours after the water changes are finished. Frozen daphnia and frozen bloodworms are the treats.

Bloodworms and all worms are not the best foods, so feed them once a week max. Prepared foods like flake and pellet are good. Some brands are better than others; I use Omega One and New Life Spectrum because these do not contain "meals" but whole fish, algae/spirulina/kelp.

Fry need more frequent feedings because they are growing. Floating plants will host microscopic foods. A finely ground flake food will work.

Byron.

 

[Yarkii]

Thank you, Byron.

Dead leaves means those that have died and fallen from the tree on their own, such as in autumn (primarily). "Dead" here means there is no liquid left in the leaf. I collect mine from under an oak tree in my back garden in the autumn. You can rinse them off, but I don't, except to remove dirt if any. Avoid leaves with bird droppings. I lay mine out on paper toweling to fully dry (externally, they are already dry internally being dead) and then keep them in plastic bags (the bags the fish from the store come home in are fine, rinse them and dry them and store them). Do not pick leaves from the tree, these are still alive and contain the natural sap which you do not want in the aquarium. Maple works, oak, beech...most hardwood trees that are deciduous should be safe, but I cannot guarantee it. Avoid all evergreen tree/shrub leaves, conifer needles, softwood tree leaves.

Thank you, Byron. It's autumn here, and a sunny day today, so it was easy to find some fallen, dry leaves that I've popped in the tank.

I didn't have time to dry them further, and I wasn't sure how many to put in or how soon they'd be worthwhile for the fish. So, although I realise you've cautioned against the slow-release food, I've bought a gel-type one instead of the plaster of Paris ones, and am watching it for a day before we go. In my phone calls to lots of LFSs yesterday, one suggested the gel type slow release feeder as being much better than the plaster ones. I'm using half the suggested amount, just in case. It's Tetra Vacation Tropical Slow Release Feeder. We leave tomorrow, late morning.

(I'm actually wondering whether to relocate part of it to the fry net.)

Another LFS suggested putting some fish food in water outside in the sun, and when it's mucky to put some of that water in with the fry, as there will hopefully be plankton in it. I popped a little container with fish food in water outside earlier today, and will see how it looks in the morning. Does what he said make sense to you?

Another LFS suggested, for the future, getting Wisteria and Duck-something (I'll have to check again) plants, as they'll produce infusoria just as the dry leaves do. Oh, and one said that Indian Almond trees are all over the place in Queensland (another Australian state, in case you're not familiar with our states), so although I haven't had any luck so far, it's not out of the question.

Decomposing leaves on aquarium plants are best removed, some anyway. A couple won't hurt. Fish are not likely to eat these, though some may pick at them.

Thanks Byron. I removed more decomposing leaves today during the big water change.

I've no idea what the pH has to do with this... ??

I don't know either. I noticed quite a few of the packets specifically said they could only be used within a certain pH range, but didn't say why. My pH is beyond all the suggested ranges.

I think you're feeding too much, generally. Except for fry, once a day is sufficient, and missing one or two days every week won't hurt. Fish should never be fed prior to any work in the tank, like water changes. Same principle as humans not eating before exercise. I use water change day for the "treats," a couple hours after the water changes are finished. Frozen daphnia and frozen bloodworms are the treats.

Thank you. I'll drop back to once per day (except for the fry).

Fry need more frequent feedings because they are growing. Floating plants will host microscopic foods. A finely ground flake food will work.

I never did find any floating plants at any of the fish shops. I've popped lots of elodea, milfoil, and some stricta loosely in the breeding net, and positioned quite a few lily pads in there. I've been crumbling flake food in there for the fry. So, will microscopic creatures likely be present there?

Interestingly, when I was rinsing out the filter sponge today, I discovered fry in the filter sump! I don't know how they got past the sponge, but they've made it past the next filtration layer as well and are swimming around in the bottom of the sump. There seem to be about 10 or so, of different sizes. I know there are snails breeding in the sump, and there's lots of light brown sediment sitting onthe bottom down there. I don't know if they simply have enough microscopic foody things in that brown stuff, but it appears that some of the fry have grown (unless they grew in the tank and only recently came into the sump).

Since I'm concerned about the fry in the breeding net starving, and the fry in the main tank being eaten by adult fish, and since I'm quite short of time, getting ready to leave, I left them in there. For all I know, they might be in the best spot for the next ten days.



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[Yarkii]

FYI: After twelve days away, I returned and found all the fish swimming happily, except for one male who had completely disappeared. This has happened before; fish can get sucked into the overflow chamber (he wasn't in there) and, if they're very unlucky, into the plumbing that leads to the filter in the sump.

I couldn't count the fry, but there are still lots of fry in the breeding net and in the sump.

The fish all looked fine, but the plants looked a little the worse for wear, with quite a few decomposing leaves. Perhaps because they weren't getting Flourish while I was gone? There's a lot of brown algae forming on the tank glass, on leaves, and on the filter outflow pipes (they're right under the lights). The snail numbers have increased.

We arrived home in the evening, too late to test the water or do a water change, but stupidly I fed the fish that night. I think that might be why the following morning I found one female guppy dead at the bottom of the tank. It's been a couple of days now, and the rest of the fish look okay.

Water parameters pre-water change:

Temp: 25-26C
pH: 7.8
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 20-40 (looks closer to 40)
KH: 6
GH: 15 (too high for my Juliis!)

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I don't believe that your feeding the night before had anything to do with the death of the female guppy.

With the plants... any plants (or just the leaves) that are decaying can (and should) be removed.

Most of the plants will likely bounce back once you start giving them Flourish again.

The brown algae is diatoms. This can be easily wiped off plant leaves or anything else it is found on.

 

[Yarkii]

I don't believe that your feeding the night before had anything to do with the death of the female guppy.

With the plants... any plants (or just the leaves) that are decaying can (and should) be removed.

Most of the plants will likely bounce back once you start giving them Flourish again.

The brown algae is diatoms. This can be easily wiped off plant leaves or anything else it is found on.

Thanks EA.

I have no idea why the female guppy died. They all looked active when we arrived home, but she was dead by the next morning. So strange. She was very pregnant; perhaps something went wrong with that? The others all look active and fine. I can't see anything sluggish or off-colour with any of them.

I've cut away the decaying leaves etc. The brown algae doesn't easily wipe off the anubia leaves. I'm reluctant to handle them too much. I'll see how they all go with a couple of Flourish doses a few days apart.

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