Hideous Algae Growth

[mark4785]

GBRs need 27-28+ really, similar to discus, I've heard some people say that they're even more sensitive but thats not to say that easycarbo is effecting them, because I don't think it is.

Didn't know that I used to keep my Bolivians at 25C just as I do with all fish. lol

So we have 1 theory to add now.

Some required reading for you Mark, These could be another problem you have. Just when you were searching on O being lower in higher temps, Co2 is too and therefore the light vs CO2 is multiplied further!!!
http/www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/6189-Water-temperature-affect-on-plants?

http/www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/5478-how-does-hight-water-temp-affect-the-need-for-ferts?

And to show you I have no problem with Ego. Her is me being told that I was wrong suggesting the 'minimal surface turbulence' in non CO2 tanks reasoning. That is nerly 2 years ago lol. long before I went non CO2. (need more data etc

http/www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/5107-Non-CO2-methods-to-ripple-or-not-to-ripple?

AC

I'm not that knowledgable when it comes to getting plants to thrive so please correct me if what I say below is confused:

The poster of the first thread you mention states this: "I understand that light drives CO2 uptake and in turn CO2 uptake drives nutrient uptake". It's also mentioned that higher temperatures increase the metabolic rate of plants. He queries whether the light is insufficient to provide energy for the plants at their fast metabolic rate.

The poster of the second linked thread states he/she is running a Discus tank at 28/30 degrees C. Its mentioned that an algae issue arises when not enough nutrients are dosed.

From reading the two threads, it sounds like high temperature increases plant activity and so does the light but there isn't enough C02 (in my case, liquid carbon) and macro-nutrient/micro-nutrient dosing to keep up with the plants demands.

Surely then, If I provide lot's more micro/macro nutrients and liquid carbon to cope with their demands, the beneficial plants (maybe I need more???) will be extremely healthy and out compete the algae.

 

[SuperColey1]

I've taken a video of the ripple, which can be viewed at this URL: http/www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0kkV-9ACug .

The Eheim is fine. Easily enough O exchange (and CO2 exchange) from that.

The left doesn't look like it ripples very far.

This may not be the right forum to ask but can anyone identify what the white substance is on the glass of the right handside aquarium??

Not focused enough to see. maybe take a normal photo on macro mode. From the video it just looks like a smudge.

Hard to say whether there should be more rippling on the left. That GBR looks in fine condition and that would say to me that he/she is happy.

As for lighting somewhere arounf the 1WPG region should be much better. Is this a Juwel tank. I reply to so many threads on so many forums I can't remember. lol If so then its tricky. You could try and 'swop' the canopy for an older one pre their 'great idea' of changing to T5s or retrofit it with T8s.

I seriously don't know where you'd place anymore plants to be honest. There's me thinking it's nearly full to capacity, obviously not lol.

I've show you my tanks. lol They are fuller than most people's yet have thriving breeding groups within them. If I get enough of those black Corys surviving at the prices Ianho saw today then my wife can retire. lol

I see myself as primarily a fish keeper so that probably explains why the plants aren't doing too well. Most of these densely planted aquariums contain no fish; I personally don't see how you can please sensitive fish and plants at the same time.

As do I. I am not the type of aquascaper that changes fish to suit their aquascape. If I rescape the same fish remaain. Whilst I do like to scape and want to have super healthy plants the fish come first. Problem with your statement is I see a heavily planted healthy aquarium as an absolute ideal for the majority of fish. I see some superb behaviour with the fish loving to dart through leaves, gaps, under 'archways' etc.

Heaily lpanted tanks provide them exactly what they want. Security and ultra high water conditioning. A healthy planted tank will have superb water parameters. By security I mean they have natural cover whenever they feel threatened. Timid fish will stay in the open much more because they know that wherever they are there is plenty of cover to hide if need be.

Add to this that a huge number of fish actually lay their eggs on plants. My espei rasbora and black corys do. Otos will too. You do see some eggs on glass, and some people tend to suggest this is the norm but if so which glass to they lay on when they are in the south american river. lol

AC

 

[mark4785]

Heaily lpanted tanks provide them exactly what they want. Security and ultra high water conditioning. A healthy planted tank will have superb water parameters. By security I mean they have natural cover whenever they feel threatened. Timid fish will stay in the open much more because they know that wherever they are there is plenty of cover to hide if need be.

Add to this that a huge number of fish actually lay their eggs on plants. My espei rasbora and black corys do. Otos will too. You do see some eggs on glass, and some people tend to suggest this is the norm but if so which glass to they lay on when they are in the south american river. lol

Thats exactly what I wanted to achieve with my aquarium. I too would like to see a piece of nature in an aquarium and see the fish appreciate it but the word that comes to mind when I try to describe my tank is 'decay'. I'm struggling to remove algae, the plants are getting choked by it, the female German Blue Ram (GBR) which was coupled with the male suddenly died so the whole idea I had which was to see Dwarf cichlids spawning in a natural environment has gone down the drain. It turns out they only spawn if you achieve a PH of 6.5 (PH is something i've never directly manipulated downward) which brings with it the risk of the nitrogen cycle stalling. Oh, and did I mention I live in Derbyshire where limestone induces an alkaline PH in my tap water?

It seems too troublesome to reach the goal I set. Nevertheless I appreciate what I have achieved but I can't stay I've been happy maintaining this tank.

 

[SuperColey1]

I live in Lincoln. Quite near to the Cathedral. which is built from the local limestone and sits on a limestone cliff

My water is pretty similar. High calcium too so I have to scrape weekly the white line around the water level.

Forget manipulating Ph for breeding. Ph means not a lot to the fish. KH is what they worry about. If it were as simple as Ph then you could put pressurised CO2 into the tank and drop the Ph down. Its a false Ph though. The KH stays the same.

That will be what some breeders do. I would bet a pound that if I put 4 GBRs in my tank at the 25C without doing anything 2 would pair off and spawn just like the Bolivians did.

Saying that GBRs are pretty sensitive fish and a better bet would be Bolivians which are a lot hardier.

Breeding is one of those 'niches' where you have some OCD breeders where everything must be at X situation or it doesn't happen. There are others that don't do a thing. I definately don't. Well almost. I turn the heater of for 4 days if I want a apawn. Jaw drop? 25 down to 21/22 for four days with Tropical fish? Works a treat.

I'm not suggesting you do that with Cichlids. Just explaining how 'guidelines' are not particularly useful in the main.

With dwarf Cichlids its a case of getting a pair that stay together, the leaving them to it. They don't need much help. They will face off just before the spawn and a few days later you'll be watching the female darting at anything that comes near her 'writhing pit'.

Most of us go through this 'algae' stage at the beginning. I went through my initial year trying to scrimp and scape rather than pay out money. Buying DIY CO2 setups etc. I ended up spending £1500 on a setup I could do for £600 with what I learned now.

The advice is simple. Choose fully planted or not. That will decide for you what to do with the lights.

If fully planted then keep the lights and make 2 DIY bottles for CO2, If not fully planted then 'downgrade' the lights.

AC

 

[mbsqw1d]

...an aquarium and see the fish appreciate it but the word that comes to mind when I try to describe my tank is 'decay'. I'm struggling to remove algae, the plants are getting choked by it...

Has your algae worsened since your OP? Going from your pics in your OP I wouldnt say that was a huge algae problem tbh. Mine is a lot worse actually yet equally frustrating all the same I've yet to get back to SuperColey about it actually. [SuperColey, it hasn't improved im afraid to say however I've just taken advice from this thread and turned my air stone/wall off!] FINGERS CROSSED

 

[mark4785]

...an aquarium and see the fish appreciate it but the word that comes to mind when I try to describe my tank is 'decay'. I'm struggling to remove algae, the plants are getting choked by it...

Has your algae worsened since your OP? Going from your pics in your OP I wouldnt say that was a huge algae problem tbh. Mine is a lot worse actually yet equally frustrating all the same I've yet to get back to SuperColey about it actually. [SuperColey, it hasn't improved im afraid to say however I've just taken advice from this thread and turned my air stone/wall off!] FINGERS CROSSED

Sorry, what does 'OP' mean?

 

[mark4785]

I live in Lincoln. Quite near to the Cathedral. which is built from the local limestone and sits on a limestone cliff

My water is pretty similar. High calcium too so I have to scrape weekly the white line around the water level.

Forget manipulating Ph for breeding. Ph means not a lot to the fish. KH is what they worry about. If it were as simple as Ph then you could put pressurised CO2 into the tank and drop the Ph down. Its a false Ph though. The KH stays the same.

That will be what some breeders do. I would bet a pound that if I put 4 GBRs in my tank at the 25C without doing anything 2 would pair off and spawn just like the Bolivians did.

Saying that GBRs are pretty sensitive fish and a better bet would be Bolivians which are a lot hardier.

Breeding is one of those 'niches' where you have some OCD breeders where everything must be at X situation or it doesn't happen. There are others that don't do a thing. I definately don't. Well almost. I turn the heater of for 4 days if I want a apawn. Jaw drop? 25 down to 21/22 for four days with Tropical fish? Works a treat.

I'm not suggesting you do that with Cichlids. Just explaining how 'guidelines' are not particularly useful in the main.

With dwarf Cichlids its a case of getting a pair that stay together, the leaving them to it. They don't need much help. They will face off just before the spawn and a few days later you'll be watching the female darting at anything that comes near her 'writhing pit'.

Most of us go through this 'algae' stage at the beginning. I went through my initial year trying to scrimp and scape rather than pay out money. Buying DIY CO2 setups etc. I ended up spending £1500 on a setup I could do for £600 with what I learned now.

The advice is simple. Choose fully planted or not. That will decide for you what to do with the lights.

If fully planted then keep the lights and make 2 DIY bottles for CO2, If not fully planted then 'downgrade' the lights.

AC

I have contacted Ferplast (Manufacturers of my aquarium) in Italy and England and they have both said that taking one of the fluorescent tube lights out and leaving the other in would be a major risk to the fish as the electrics would be exposed to water vapour where there is a missing tube light. Also, based on my understanding of the instructions, where there is one light installed, it will not turn on until the 2nd is plugged in.

I've tried to look for very low wattage T5 tube lights for my aquarium but it seems only 24W one's are available.

My aquarium name is Cayman 80 professional. Does anybody know of a lighting spec which would be suitable for the plants that I have, in that particular temperature and with the addition of liquid c02? The tube needs to have a length of 55cm/22".

As for the breeding aspect, GBR's wouldn't survive in 25 degrees C water. They require 28 degrees C water and above only. The thing that triggers spawning is a change in PH as in their natural environment, during a monsoon, massive amounts of water filled with carbonic acid would come out of the sky and land into the tropical lake. This carbonic acid would lower the PH level and, for some reason, this is a prompt for fish to begin spawning. You're right about KH fluctuations being more noticeable to fish but KH and PH in some circumstances do interact with each other. If you have a high carbon hardness, you will have an alkaline PH for instance. Maybe that doesn't apply if you put pressured carbon in water but I wasn't really looking at it from that angle.

 

[mark4785]

Come to think of it, I think finding a suitable low-wattage fluorescent tube light is near impossible.

I'm going to keep my current lighting set-up and invest in a c02 system.

I have found this c02 system on eBay. Has anybody used this specific system, if so, is it any good? Hopefully it's cheap price won't mean it's close to useless?!

Mark.

 

[PDSimon]

Did you ask the manufacturer if there with other bulbs available?

 

[mbsqw1d]

Come to think of it, I think finding a suitable low-wattage fluorescent tube light is near impossible.

I'm going to keep my current lighting set-up and invest in a c02 system.

I have found this c02 system on eBay. Has anybody used this specific system, if so, is it any good? Hopefully it's cheap price won't mean it's close to useless?!

Mark.

to lose some light i thought of these maybe? :
www.allplas.co.uk/acatalog/Light_Diffuser_Panels.html

i think diy c02 is exactly the same pricipal as what you r lookin at there.. id say you'd definately need a dropper if using yeast style c02

 

[SuperColey1]

As for the breeding aspect, GBR's wouldn't survive in 25 degrees C water. They require 28 degrees C water and above only.[/quote]
You've been reading some funny sites!!! Some profiles go as low as 23. The consensus tends to be 25-29. The one I tend to use says for breeding to raise the temperature up from normal as far as 28. Not that they need this. This also means that the tank should be a normal temperature for most of the time and then if they are struggling to breed to coax them raising the temp. Not necessarily that it is needed. A little like a cold water change for Corys and other Cats.

Also says that lowering Ph can be beneficial. These things aren't necessary though. It is always better to have the tank at a set temp and Ph and see what happens. Then make the alterations only if oyu need to and only as a coaxing method.

If you do want to lower the Ph I would add black water extract or some peat to the filter rather than any of those dodgy Ph lowering chemicals.

If we're going by 'profiles' then this ram does need lots of plant coverage

The thing that triggers spawning is a change in PH as in their natural environment, during a monsoon, massive amounts of water filled with carbonic acid would come out of the sky and land into the tropical lake. This carbonic acid would lower the PH level and, for some reason, this is a prompt for fish to begin spawning. You're right about KH fluctuations being more noticeable to fish but KH and PH in some circumstances do interact with each other. If you have a high carbon hardness, you will have an alkaline PH for instance. Maybe that doesn't apply if you put pressured carbon in water but I wasn't really looking at it from that angle.

I agree KH and Ph in general do sway together but it can't be relied on. when someone talks about a 'Ph crash' it is nothing to do with the Ph. It is the KH which in turn may bring the Ph down. If KH tests were as accurate as Ph tests then we wouldn;t really be talking bout Ph much in the hobby.

On the light front you wil ony find one wattage of tube for that ficture. This is a problem with setups that you either stick with what the electrics run or retrofit. This means ripping out the old lights, electrics etc and fitting new ones.

As said above if you are going to go for a yeast CO2 setup don't bother with that one you linked to. Either get the Nutrafin which is half the price or make your own. However with your light it's still not going to be too good. I used to use 3 on my 125Ltr and still wasn't consistent enough.

Would be much cheaper in the long run to rip the lights out and fit in something a little lower. Something like the Hagen Glo or Arcadia starters that you get in MA or P@H. (or on ebay) then just screw in the 'lamp holders' and hey presto lower lighting.
AC

 

[mark4785]

Would be much cheaper in the long run to rip the lights out and fit in something a little lower. Something like the Hagen Glo or Arcadia starters that you get in MA or P@H. (or on ebay) then just screw in the 'lamp holders' and hey presto lower lighting.
AC

But what would I achieve if I switched to Hagen Glo? The wattage of light that it takes is 24w x 2 just like the current set up that I have. Only difference I can see is possibly the tubing length.

Here's the link to one of the Arcadia lighting products: http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/Arcadia-i-Bar-AI125-700mm-2-x-24w-Marine-Freshwater-/250672021294?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Fish&hash=item3a5d377f2e . Again it's very very similar to the lighting I have already.

 

[SuperColey1]

You're lloking at T5HO items. It will be the same. You need T5NO or T8 which will be about two thirds at the same lengths.

AC

 

[mark4785]

You're lloking at T5HO items. It will be the same. You need T5NO or T8 which will be about two thirds at the same lengths.

AC

I've decided to keep the lighting specs (yes I've changed my mind again!) that I have and look into getting a c02 dropper and c02 system. I'm going to travel to an aquatic shop tomorrow and see if I can find such products and ask somebody what sort of plant care regime they have in a tank of similar size to mine and whether or not they have lush plant growth as a result of that regime. In other words I want to copy what another person does in order to have healthy plants

 

[PDSimon]

I wouldn't trust most LFSs opinions on what encourages lush plant growth. Better of doing your own research and sourcing your own things. There are plently of examples of good plant growth on this forum to help you.




I recently got pressurised co2 it cost

30 pound for 3kg co2
28 quid for a bubble counter, check valve, diffuser and drop checker
about 80 quid for a solenoid and a regulator

138 pound excluding 4dkh water, tubing, timers etc