Help!

[chrissaysyes]

Ok so here's the deal. I recently upgraded my 30g tank to a 55g (not much of an upgrade I know but space and money are an issue.) The 30g had been running for about a year but I recently added an anemone that is growing and thriving much nicer than I expected and I wanted to add a few more fish. So the move went well and everything survived (including my anemone). About a week later, parameters were all doing fine but I noticed my tomato clown was showing signs of ich. White specs but no strange behavior and the specs seemed to fall off during the day but then they reappeared every morning...wtf? I thought maybe they could be copods that were riding him around? Ok so it was more than likely ich because he slowly started secluding himself and the little specs were more an more visible. His fins seemed to rot off over night. One day he was secluding himself but looking sort of healthy and then the next he was swimming sideways through the tank and his fins were all ripped up so I removed him and put in a bucket that was dripping tank water over him along with an air pump. He lasted about 5-6 hours and then passed away. Next to show the signs of illness was my yellow tang. He was young and I know he wouldve required a larger tank but the space was suitable for now. Anyway, he followed the same path...white specs one day, then swimming all funny and rotted fins. After that all of my damsels did the same. The last to die was tonight. My last fish, a four striped damsel. He was the oldest fish in the tank. He never really showed spots but his color kept getting lighter. Does that sound like ich? I dont think I've ever heard of ich changing the fishes color but I guess that comes with the stress...he's eyes looked glazed over as well. He became very slow and just sat still but then had jerking fits. His fins were also completely ripped off. Just wondering if you guys agree that this is marine ich and if the best method of treating the tank would be to let it remain fish free for about a month. The tank is home to several corals and iverts so any kind of copper treatment is out of the question obviously. I have a reef safe treatment called kick-ich but I dont know how much I trust it. I treasure my corals a lot more than I do damsels so maybe it would be cheaper and less risky to just wait a month and then add a few damsels. Please give me some good advice here guys. Much appreciated!!

 

[SkiFletch]

It sounds like your fish have contracted Ich (whose symptoms often wax and wane) and then are succumbing to a secondary bacterial or fungal infection. Tough to say wahat your best course of treatment is, but I might reccomend at least attempting quarantine and treatment with hyposalinity (1.009sg). Worked for me...

 

[chrissaysyes]

quarantine what? All fish are dead...

 

[Lynden]

Sounds to me like gill flukes. Is very difficult to treat. My lagoon trigger got ich recently and his cysts fell of everyday as well, but they eventually stopped coming back. This remedy was produced by feeding spiulina and garlic enriched brine shrimp. Fish that hide in rocky crevices to sleep, or that have a thin mucous covering (both noted in fish such as tangs, angels, triggers) seem highly susceptible to crypto (marine ich) since the parasites can actually run on a day/night cycle, falling off and settling one night then bursting open to reinfect the fish another night.

My domino damselfish is likely a carrier as he seems to have a chronic infection, and though this waxes and wanes it is never much more than an annoyance. By contrast, the clownfish or any of the others (barring the trigger, as above) have never shown a speck of it, and I assume that to be because the puffer is nocturnal and doesn't sleep at night and the clownfish sleeps in an environment totally unsuitable for parasite settlement (a stinging sea anemone).

So perhaps some slimy or heavily armoured fish are your best bet? Hosted clownfish, morays, gobies, triggers, puffers?

 

[chrissaysyes]

3 gobies and one clown fish were lost to this illness so I'm guessing theyre out of the question. My anemone is a condy so nothing is going to host it so there will be no protection offered from that. My tank isnt large enough for a trigger, not to mention theyre not very good reef fish. Same goes for puffers...I dont think my snails and shrimp would be very happy with a puffer. Save those for my brackish tank.

My fish are definitely contracting whatever this is at night time...but it seemed to jump from fish to fish...no two fish were ever sick at the same time. It took out one at a time. It was weird like that. It happened within the span of about two days except for in the case of the clown. Maybe the clown was the first to contract the parasites, then he made for a good enough host to spread them on to the others...I'm thinking maybe wait a bit longer...a week or two...then add a few damsels and imediately start them on mysis and mashed garlic? Sound wise?

Oh and by the way, my tank temp usually varies by a degree or even a degree and a half throughout the day...could this effect the growth of the parasite? i.e. in the morning it is usually 77.3-77.5 and at night it is usually 77.8-78.1

oh and I have a cleaner shrimp...but...heh...he's pretty useless

 

[Musho3210]

well, i would keep the temp higher, in the lower 80s. And my swing is 82 day - 78 night on the colder nights, i find this actually a beneficial thing since thats what happens in the wild.... So your .6 degree temp change is nothing to worry about.

 

[Lynden]

My tank isnt large enough for a trigger, not to mention theyre not very good reef fish. Same goes for puffers...I dont think my snails and shrimp would be very happy with a puffer

Where's the "I think I'll jump off a bridge if I have to explain this to one more person" smiley, I guess this will have to do...

Click the "Un-reef-safe fish for reef tanks" link in my 'signature'. Since you seemed to be aware that you needed to rehome the tang anyways, why is size a limitation? Several triggers and puffers make great reef fish, better for the purpose (and way cooler) than many fish more often given this title.

 

[SkiFletch]

Oh, sorry, I thought you still had a fish left

Well the only advice I can offer is what I did with my own tank which was successful. Got a BAD outbreak of ich, lost half my fish, quarantined the sickly survivors in hyposalinity (1.009). I kept them in QT for 8 weeks (no fish in the display) to both ensure they were cured, and that leftover parasites in the display tank died without a host. After 8 weeks, returned the survivors, and no more ich. That method tries your patience, but it usually works.

 

[chrissaysyes]

There we go. Sounds good. Well...not good but...sounds like a plan 8 weeks will give me time to add more corals and focus on fine tuning my feeding methods and such...is it just me or is keeping euphyllia almost identical to keeping an anemone only minus the constant worrying?

 

[chrissaysyes]

My tank isnt large enough for a trigger, not to mention theyre not very good reef fish. Same goes for puffers...I dont think my snails and shrimp would be very happy with a puffer

Where's the "I think I'll jump off a bridge if I have to explain this to one more person" smiley, I guess this will have to do...

Click the "Un-reef-safe fish for reef tanks" link in my 'signature'. Since you seemed to be aware that you needed to rehome the tang anyways, why is size a limitation? Several triggers and puffers make great reef fish, better for the purpose (and way cooler) than many fish more often given this title.

Welllll I would hate to add a fish that could potentially become stressed to the point of death because of a lack of swim space...especially during this battle with ich. Dont get me wrong, I love puffers and triggers. Puffers especially, I used to keep a large brackish tank before I moved to saltwater and I had a figure eight puffer that is still one of my favorite fish I've ever kept. I know tank size isnt as big of an issue with some puffers but arent pretty much all triggers going to eventually require atleast twice as much volume as my 50g? There's a humu at the LFS that would love to come home with me Not to mention he's in a 20gal tank with a grouper...it seems really wrong.

 

[Lynden]

You are to be commended for resisting the trigger (more than one could say about me... ), but, they can usually be kept in 4' tanks as they reach only about eight inches or so.

 

[chrissaysyes]

hmm..8" sounds huge for a 4ft tank. Maybe thats just me. Coming from my background in overpopulated/uberfiltered cichlid tanks. But...dont tempt me I will snatch that trigger up in a heart beat

So against all advice and all intelligence that I have...I did something dumb today. I bought a clown fish. He's wild, he's eating, and he was cheap. I went in to get a damsel to experiment on but walked out with him. I figure I'll try twice as hard since there's nothing sadder than a dead clown fish in the toilet bowl. My hopes were that since he's wild he may be more likely to host in a nem or even one of my other wigglies like the euphyllia. I figure he'd be safer in either one, especially the nem. Not really looking like he's interested in either...he seems more intrigued by the intake wall...a.k.a the left wall of the tank that consists of intaked for the fluval, two powerheads, and the skimmer. Maybe that's a good thing...maybe the strong current will keep parasites off? Doing a 30% water change tomorrow and I've already started him on a blend of garlic and mysis. He showed interest but Im not 100% on if he was actually swallowing or not. I did see him munch a few flakes of garlic though...maybe his bad breath will keep the crypto away. He's also located on the side of the tank where the cleaner shrimp likes to hang out. Maybe that will pan out nicely. I dunno what will happen but wish me and my stupidity luck.

Also, I know "kick-ich" is supposedly reef-safe but do you guys think it could affect my anemone in any way? Worried about using it for that reason.

 

[Lynden]

hmm..8" sounds huge for a 4ft tank

Yeah it does, but far and wide 70 or 90 gallons is typically the recommended tank size. I personally find an eight inch fish in a ninety gallon reasonable enough.

Also, I know "kick-ich" is supposedly reef-safe but do you guys think it could affect my anemone in any way

Yes... but probably not in a way that would harm it. Established nems can be very hardy, and I see plenty of authors that rate them as the hardiest of marine inverts... though I wouldn't totally agree.

 

[chrissaysyes]

Also, I know "kick-ich" is supposedly reef-safe but do you guys think it could affect my anemone in any way

Yes... but probably not in a way that would harm it. Established nems can be very hardy, and I see plenty of authors that rate them as the hardiest of marine inverts... though I wouldn't totally agree.

Very interesting statement.

 

[Musho3210]

i agree about them being the hardiest, aiptasia.....