Help With Sick Betta - Update With Recovery Pics

[Janene]

Thank you all

Well I went to 3 different Pet stores and no one has heard of Copper Safe. - one so called "expert" told me that I was mad putting copper in fresh water aquariums, and I would kill him. - another told me Bettas didn't get whitespot....See what I have to work with!!

Anyway, found a store that sold a product called "Ichonex" by Aquasonic. It has an active ingredient of Copper Sulphate. It's a daily treatment, just did the second dose this morning. I also added some Aquarium salt to the tank.

I was furious that no one seemed to have a CLUE how to help me. What on earth are they selling fish for?!



On a lighter note - I couldn't resist walking past a beautiful Crown tail swimming madly around his little coffee cup size cube, so I grabbed him too. He's in a quarintine tank at the moment. Jacob is his name (starting to see the twilight reference now?!! hehe) I will post a picture later.

But thoughts are on Edward - I can't believe how much he's held on. He's such a fighter..

 

[WILDER]

Some fish are not prone to whitespot but betta are.
Good Luck.

 

[Janene]

Thank you Wilder

 

[Tolak]

Sounds like you have some real winners to work with there.

I found the ingredients for that product;

Product Name: Ichonex by Aquasonic
Active Constituent/s: 0.60 mg/mL malachite green, 0.50 mg/mL copper as copper (II) sulfate
Applicant Name: Aquasonic Pty Ltd
Applicant ACN: 001 427 256
Summary of Use: An ornamental aquarium antiseptic for the treatment of freshwater fish.
Date of Registration: 7 July 2005
Label Approval No: 57896/100mL/0704, 57896/250mL/0704, 57896/1L/0704


http/www.apvma.gov.au/gazette/gazette0508p11.shtml

 

[Janene]

Thank you Tolak. - So does it seem like it could be something similar to CopperSafe?
I did notice that it still contains the Malachite Green...Will that hinder the Copper Sulfate any?

I look forward to getting home from work to see how Edward is going after two doses.

Also to add.
I was so disgusted in how they packaged Jacob, they "poured" the water from the cube into the bag
so roughly, and then swung it round and round and round to twist the top...Until I said "Please be
gentle" I'm sure he would have felt like he was on a roller coaster from hell....Talk about stress!
I walked out of there so angry, I sat in the car for 5 mins to let him settle a bit before bumping
him around in the car again....

So is it common to see such practices in Pet Stores?

 

[Tolak]

Those meds will work fine together. Is it common to see that? Unfortunately yes, pouring gently is fine, dumping is bad practice. Spin the top if the bag with your finger while holding the bag, don't spin the bag round & round.

 

[Janene]

Urgh, I felt like hitting the stupid guy.


Anyway - during lunch from work I've raced around AGAIN to help Jacob and Edward.
Because Jacobs tank is not cycled, and the fact that I will have to completely scrub down Edwards tank so it will all be new
I've searched for Ammo Lock as Laura instructed...and again I've been met with blank faces with no idea.

I ended up getting a product called something like "stabilize" or "stability" which basically is good bacteria in a bottle.
I hope that does the same job. I am setting up Jacobs tank this afternoon, will share some photos in a new thread.

Thank again for everyone's help. I really hope Edward pulls through this, I'm always SO relieved to see him still
alive when I check each morning.....I keep expecting the worse...He sure lives up to his name of a fighter.

 

[electric yellow]

Thank you Tolak. - So does it seem like it could be something similar to CopperSafe?
I did notice that it still contains the Malachite Green...Will that hinder the Copper Sulfate any?

I look forward to getting home from work to see how Edward is going after two doses.

Also to add.
I was so disgusted in how they packaged Jacob, they "poured" the water from the cube into the bag
so roughly, and then swung it round and round and round to twist the top...Until I said "Please be
gentle" I'm sure he would have felt like he was on a roller coaster from hell....Talk about stress!
I walked out of there so angry, I sat in the car for 5 mins to let him settle a bit before bumping
him around in the car again....

So is it common to see such practices in Pet Stores?

Did you go to Pets Paradise by chance? They are phenomenal for that. I got my last VT from an independant pet store neext to Bunnings and they pretty much squashed the bag in the cup and nearlly suffocated the poor boy.

 

[Janene]

Believe it or not it wasn't....I got Edward from Pets Paradise - they did handle him better, but look how sick he is now! lol..


Jacob was from an independant pet store - so I was a little shocked, well not really....
I'm just so glad for forums like this..

 

[LauraFrog]

Pets Paradise and Pets to Pamper are equally bad in my experience... PP tends to have junior staff without a clue, and P2P staff who think they know everything and will beat down an experienced hobbyist into a pile of pulp. The fish are equally sick and poorly cared for.

I feel REALLY sorry for you Janene... I'm lucky that there are 2 LFS within half an hour of me that actually have a clue. One of them is in my town and the proprietors are seriously friends of mine... they know what they're talking about. They've been keeping fish for ages and haven't heard of a lot of 'new fangled' stuff like fishless cycling, but unlike the staff in most of the chain stores they will listen to the opinions of other people, particularly if those other people know what they're on about.
It sucks that you can't take the advice of them, or trust them at all... I was getting a betta from P2P once, couldn't pass him up, very unusual markings. So they asked me if I knew how to feed them and look after them. I told them I fed Hikari Bio-gold and that he was going in a divided, filtered 20 litre tank. They looked at me like I was mad and said 'but you can keep bettas in, like, a vase or something, as long as you change the water in it once every two weeks, and you could have, like, six goldfish or twelve neons in that other tank!' Then they proceeded to bag the betta with just enough water to cover him and it's not like it was a kordon bag! It's a good thing I NEVER go ANYWHERE without a bottle of ammo lock and a syringe stashed in my purse (yeah, I know, 'you know you're hooked on fish when...') I ended up going into a public toilet and refilling his bag, because he was lying on the bottom of it in literally about 150mLs of water and gasping for breath. Never seen anything like it. Man did I get some weird stares, standing at the sink for ten minutes dripping water into the bag.

Another time, same shop, I complained about the fact that the bettas had barely an inch of water and most of them were seriously affected by whitespot and lying on their sides. 'They always look like that'. Me: 'But they're covered in white spots and they have so little water they can't sit upright!' Her: 'I've been in the industry six years so I think I know what I'm talking about!' Me: [CENSORED]

Bacteria in a bottle products don't really work. If they neutralise chlorine and chloramine, they will do the job of regular water conditioners. If they also neutralise ammonia they will sort of do the job of ammo-lock, but they are not AS safe as ammo-lock.
In a cycled tank, bacteria are actually removing the ammonia by changing it to non-toxic compounds - this is biological filtration. Ammo-lock works chemically by converting the ammonia to a non toxic form - it's still ammonia, and will be removed by the biological filter, unless there isn't one, in which case - water changes. Ammo-lock is the best thing to use if you don't have a filter, or if your tank is in the middle of a fish-in cycle. The other product will probably protect the fish, but it won't speed up your cycle like it may claim to. It will contain a mixture of 'cycle bacteria' and chemicals that detoxify the ammonia. The chemicals will work, but the bacteria are all dead and won't do anything.

LOL at the twilight-addict-ness... I'm the same, read them about four times. (When my best friend turned 16, her boyfriend gave her a copy of the DVD, so we were all sitting on her bed at 3 AM - her, me and three other girls, watching it. ME: He looks hot in a tux. HER: He looks hot in anything. ME: Good point.) LOL!
Anyway, a hint: www.theaquariumshop.com.au - they send stuff fast. Really fast. It's well packed, everything you order turns up in good condition, and they are a LOT cheaper for equipment, food, meds - just about everything actually. If you know what you want, they've probably got it and they won't try to sell you something else which probably won't work.

 

[Janene]

Laura, thank you once again for such insight. I really do appreciate it.

I will take a look at that site.
I feel like a twit going into pet stores around here. I swear they see me coming now and hide - because no one has a CLUE how to answer my questions...then they just turn it all around and make me look like a fool for even asking.
Like the copper sulphate Q - Urgh, this guy swore I'd kill my fish if I did it...and the guy who said Bettas don't get whitespot...I mean CMON! I even said to him it was professionally diagnosed and it cannot be anything else - he said, get a second opinion because its just not possible...I had to bite my tongue and walk away.

Edward is still fighting on. Still no signs of improvement yet, but we're hopefull this will work.

 

[LauraFrog]

Good luck - fingers crossed!!! I have never used copper sulfate myself but I know a lot of people overseas (including Tolak who knows what he's on about in a big way) swear by it.

Bettas don't get whitespot... what a joke, you should print out a photo and take it to him because it's classic whitespot. Second opinion? I think you've got about four! Copper sulfate WILL kill invertebrates - if you put it in a tank that's got shrimp, snails, etc they will die. So maybe that's what he's getting confused with? Moron.

I have to say though, it must get kind of depressing working in a store like that because most of the PEOPLE are so ignorant. I've heard people asking more than once whether 'nemo' (saltwater clownfish) can go in their tank with their goldfish/guppies.

 

[Janene]

Well Edward is still going today...
He's moved from his spot in the grassy plant to resting on top of the filter, in about half an inch of water...I leave him there, I figured if he's having trouble getting to the surface for air it's the best place for him. Still covered in spots, but I'm not sure - they seem to be shrinking in size a little....He doesn't look AS covered...But his eyes are cloudy, which is a big concern.

 

[electric yellow]

Are you treating for Ich or Velvet?

If its ich the spots should start to go after a week or so. Maybe he has two sicknesses like Ramjet has? Do you leave his light turned off while hes sick and being treated? I think that helped me a bit. My boy did have the upper hand of still eating though even while he was very ill and not looking so crash hot.

I also have an air stone in my tank and i knocked my heater up to 28degrees instead of 26. Has there been any improvement in his behaviour? Have you tried feeding him?

 

[Janene]

I have tried feeding him, he hasn't eaten in a few days now. I've got his Temp at 30 which it has been at since I started treatment.

I'm treating for White spot...I was told it wasn't velvet. I've left his light off for the past 4 days. Trying to reduce stress anyway I can. I give him about an hour of light a day (plus whatever natural light filters through)

I don't know, he seems to be gasping this morning, more so than normal...
It doesn't look good..