Help with larger tank.

[Stacey1990]

Hi guys, I'm new here so let me know if I'm not posting in the correct place.
So basically, I decided to start keeping fish as im fascinated by them. Unfortunately I havnt been given great advice by my local pet store.
I had 4 platys and 4 danios in a 24 litre tank. Sadly 1 of the platys has died and 1 of the danios has mysteriously vanished, I've searched high and low but cant find her.
Anyway, after some of my own research I have decided to buy a larger tank (110 litres). I am going to do a fish less cycle once I get set up and once the cycle is complete I plan to transfer my current fish. I plan on getting 3 more danio as I also wasnt told they should be kept in groups of at least 6.
My question is, once the new aquarium is fully established, which fish do people think would live happiest with my current fish and how many?
Thanks so much if you've made it this far.

 

[Essjay]

Do you intend to keep the 24 litre running? If you don't, at least in the short term, you could transfer the fish and the filter, or filter media, into the new tank without cycling it. Assuming the 24 litre is cycled, the filter will have enough bacteria to support the current fish regardless of which tank it's in.
However, I would not buy more immediately afterwards. Wait a few days until you are sure that the ammonia and nitrite levels remain at zero.


Before recommending other fish, we like to know how hard your water is. This information should be somewhere on your water company's website. We need a number and the unit of measurement rather than vague words.
Soft water fish kept in hard water will suffer, and hard water fish kept in soft water will suffer which is why we always ask.




A lesson we've all learned - never believe anything a fish shop worker tells you. Always research for yourself.

 

[Stacey1990]

Thanks for the reply.
I dont plan on keeping the 24 litre running so thanks for that advice.
I have tried looking on the water company website and it literally just says the water for my area is slightly hard. No measurements etc.

 

[Essjay]

My water company also doesn't give numbers. Mine also says slightly hard but I know that this is misleading as a few months ago they did give the figure and it's 5 dH which is soft in fish keeping terms. (Your company isn't Northumbrian Water by any chance?)

You need to pin down the hardness as your water company's 'slightly hard' might not tbe the same as mine. Can I suggest you take a sample of tap water to a fish shop and ask them to test it for GH and KH. Make sure they give you numbers.


If, like mine, the hardness is actually soft, you need to look at soft water fish. Platies are hard water fish; you can either let them live out their lives in your tank even though it's not ideal, or return them to the shop - maybe swap them for more danios.
Danios are very active fish - they dash around a tank - so they need active tank mates. Sedate fish will be stressed living in the same tank as active fish.
When you go to the shop to get GH and KH tested, look round their taks and make a note of the fish that catch your eye. Then post the list on here

 

[Stacey1990]

Thanks so much. Yes it is northumbrian water actually lol. I'll take a sample to the shop.
I do have some test strips in the house (I know they aren't great but I'm waiting for my api master kit to arrive as I also wasnt made aware of taking water parameter measurements), they have always said my levels are within the normal range. Is that reliable at all or just useless?

 

[Essjay]

Of the various testers on the strip the important ones are
nitrite - the only 'normal' level is zero. Anything above this is bad for fish.
ammonia, when you have the API kit, should also be zero to keep the fish safe.
nitrate - this should be kept below 20 ppm*.
GH and KH - there is no normal. Different fish need different hardness.
pH - again, there is no normal. Different fish need different pH.

The strip will give you a ball park figure for GH - don't test strips give a range rather than a number? It's not worth buying a GH tester separately as the tank hardness will only change if you do something to make it change so you only need to test GH once. That's why I suggest getting it tested at a shop. Or try contacting Northumbrian Water.

When you get the API kit, follow the nitrate instructions for shaking bottle #2. In fact, tap the bottle on the worktop first then shake very hard. One of the reagents settles on the bottom of the bottle and the shaking is to get it back into the liquid.


*As you can see from the details under my name, I'm in Teesside and my tap nitrate is under 5 so keeping tank nitrate below 20 ppm is easy. Kielder Water is not in an agricultural region so no fertiliser is used near it.

 

[Retired Viking]

You may want to keep the smaller tank running for now since you are going to buy some new fish, This way you can isolate your new fish when you frist buy them

 

[seangee]

Thanks for the reply.
I dont plan on keeping the 24 litre running so thanks for that advice.

Famous last words. To save you having to ask the question later ...
A single beta or some shrimp ...

 

[Stacey1990]

Ok guys so I havnt been able to get a sample of water to my LFS. I am also still waiting waiting for an email back from northumbrian water.
I have been able to download a copy of a water report for my area but to be honest I dont have a clue what it means or if it even contains the info I need. I will try and attach it and see if some clever person can help.

 

[Essjay]

That is the water quality report which does not contain the hardness, unfortunately. But it does have some useful information.
The table gives the pH (hydrogen ion) and nitrate (mean level just under 5 ppm)



However - years ago Northumbrian Water had a table of hardness for the whole area on their website. The last one was in 2010, and I saved it to my laptop.
Beacon Lough is N111 region in the table and for that region it gives hardness 8 German deg (the same as dH) which converts to 143 ppm.

In theory it should be pretty much the same now. Mine is 4 dH on the table but a few months ago, when they did give a number, it was 5 dH.

If you do get a reply it will be interesting to see if it has changed. If they do reply and give your hardness, it may well be in the unit mg/l calcium, so it will need to be converted to dH and ppm.

 

[Byron]

There is no reference in that report for general (or total) hardness, unfortunately. GH (general hardness) is primarily calcium and magnesium, and these two minerals are not listed either, which may mean the water does not contain them or it may mean the water authority does not consider them an issue. They are after all more concerned over contaminants that are risky or dangerous to public health.

@essjay has a much better grasp of UK water so she may have some info when she sees this thread.

 

[Stacey1990]

That is the water quality report which does not contain the hardness, unfortunately. But it does have some useful information.
The table gives the pH (hydrogen ion) and nitrate (mean level just under 5 ppm)



However - years ago Northumbrian Water had a table of hardness for the whole area on their website. The last one was in 2010, and I saved it to my laptop.
Beacon Lough is N111 region in the table and for that region it gives hardness 8 German deg (the same as dH) which converts to 143 ppm.

In theory it should be pretty much the same now. Mine is 4 dH on the table but a few months ago, when they did give a number, it was 5 dH.

If you do get a reply it will be interesting to see if it has changed. If they do reply and give your hardness, it may well be in the unit mg/l calcium, so it will need to be converted to dH and ppm.

Ok thank you. So if it is 8 dH, what does this mean lol

 

[Essjay]

It means that it is too soft for hard water fish such as livebearers or Rift Lake cichlids. And it is too hard for a few soft water fish, those that need it really soft, but it should be OK for the majority of soft water fish.
Look up any fish that catches your eye on https://www.seriouslyfish.com/knowledge-base/ Check that 8 dH/143 ppm is in their range, and that they are suitable for the size of tank you have.

 

[Stacey1990]

So is it just me being totally stupid. When I looked at this conversion table it says having a water of 8 dH that would make it hard?

 

[Essjay]

Hardness in words means different things to different people, which is why we always say to ignore the words and look for a number. In fish keeping terms, 8 dH is at the higher end of soft water, bordering on middling. Use Seriously Fish to find out the hardness numbers needed by fish you are considering and ignore the words.