Help What Have I Done Wrong?

[naomilovesherfish]

hi i posted about my female guppy who gave birth to 13 fry well i managed to get hold of a small tank to transfer them into, put a heater and and airstone in, a couple of some plants and some gravel, yesterday they were fine and they were swimming about and feeding seemed like they enjoyed the bigger space, but come home from work today and i couldnt see any not one, i moved a couple of pieces of gravel and there was one dead, followed by 11 more, i found another 4 not the easiest thing to count so now i knew i actually had 15 guppy fry. the other four were very lafargic not much movement, one of them died, now i am left wih three, two seem to have a burst of energy but end upside down, the other is not so bad. but i also had two 2week old platy fry one dead and not sure how the other one is to be honest.
the water which was in the fry tank i had taken from my main tank which they have already been used to as this is what they were born in.
i believe the heater wasnt set hot enough though, water seemed slighlty cool, but when it came on it was warm enough.
could they have got trapped in the gravel or something. i am really upset as i skinted myself just to make sure my fry would be happy and have a better place to grow in instead of the old breeder net, now it looks like all my hard work has gone tits up, these were my pets, and i loved the little buggas.
i want to make sure i do everything right next times so could really do with some good advise and help, i have only been keeping tropical for 2 month so i have still got alot to learn,i know that.

thanks
naomi

 

[OldMan47]

I don't recall how long ago they were born Naomi, but if the fry had been in the tank a few days, it would have been time enough for the ammonia buildup in an uncycled tank to become toxic. Something that would make the buildup even faster is if you have been feeding them heavily to promote faster growth. More feeding means lots of cleaning and lots of water changes, even in an established tank. What are your water parameters in the fry tank? Can we eliminate the ammonia buildup or not?

 

[naomilovesherfish]

I don't recall how long ago they were born Naomi, but if the fry had been in the tank a few days, it would have been time enough for the ammonia buildup in an uncycled tank to become toxic. Something that would make the buildup even faster is if you have been feeding them heavily to promote faster growth. More feeding means lots of cleaning and lots of water changes, even in an established tank. What are your water parameters in the fry tank? Can we eliminate the ammonia buildup or not?

they were born wednesday in the breeders net which is in my main tank, and they were put into my new tank on the friday so there would have only been a small amount of ammonia buildup as they were only in for just over a day.

naomi
xxx

 

[Tolak]

It doesn't take much ammonia to affect fry. It also doesn't take much nitrifying bacteria to deal with this small amount of ammonia. I you have an air pump you can build one of these; http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=85297

All you need to add is a small amount of cycled filter media, or even a bit of gravel from the surface of the gravel bed in a mature tank. This small amount of nitrifying bacteria will make all the difference in the world. An old trick is to take a new sponge filter, and pile a handful of gravel from a mature tank on top of the sponge.

I wouldn't think the temperature difference had anything to do with it. I ran a 150 gallon tub outdoors over the summer, and well into the fall for breeding platys. It topped out near 90F a couple of times during the summer. In the fall, due to it having fry with low circulation filtration there were cool spots that were in the low 60'sF The heat was set for 77F, so there were warmer spots, probably closer to 80F near the heater. This is near a 20F difference in one tub, I still have uncountable fry indoors in a tank.

Ammonia is the probable cause. Don't feel bad, we all have had the same experiences, if we had a fish killing poll I would be very near the top if you included fry.

 

[naomilovesherfish]

It doesn't take much ammonia to affect fry. It also doesn't take much nitrifying bacteria to deal with this small amount of ammonia. I you have an air pump you can build one of these; [URL="http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=85297"]http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=85297[/URL]

All you need to add is a small amount of cycled filter media, or even a bit of gravel from the surface of the gravel bed in a mature tank. This small amount of nitrifying bacteria will make all the difference in the world. An old trick is to take a new sponge filter, and pile a handful of gravel from a mature tank on top of the sponge.

I wouldn't think the temperature difference had anything to do with it. I ran a 150 gallon tub outdoors over the summer, and well into the fall for breeding platys. It topped out near 90F a couple of times during the summer. In the fall, due to it having fry with low circulation filtration there were cool spots that were in the low 60'sF The heat was set for 77F, so there were warmer spots, probably closer to 80F near the heater. This is near a 20F difference in one tub, I still have uncountable fry indoors in a tank.

Ammonia is the probable cause. Don't feel bad, we all have had the same experiences, if we had a fish killing poll I would be very near the top if you included fry.

will the fry end up hiding in something like this though???

naomi
xxx

 

[Tolak]

If you provide some floating plants or a small pile of larger rocks they will be more likely to hide in that. When I did platys many years ago in a community tank with gravel they never hid in the gravel, but there were other places.

I have a 40 gallon with plays fry & such, they hide in the floating plants, not the sponge or box filter.

 

[naomilovesherfish]

would it be possible to do something like this rap some sponge round my airstone???
thanks
naomi
xxx

if i were to soak the sponge under my gravel in my main tank first would this help

 

[Tolak]

If you have some tubing you could put the air line in it will help. Just sitting here looking at the junk around the computer I see a fat pen I could pull the guts out of, stick into a cycled sponge & put an air line down.

The tubing provides water flow, the water will enter the bottom of the tube, through the sponge.

 

[naomilovesherfish]

If you have some tubing you could put the air line in it will help. Just sitting here looking at the junk around the computer I see a fat pen I could pull the guts out of, stick into a cycled sponge & put an air line down.

The tubing provides water flow, the water will enter the bottom of the tube, through the sponge.

so like this sorry about the picture want to make sure am getting it right.

the fry wont be able to swim down the tubing will they???

naomi
xxx

 

[nosoup4you]

http/www.aquarticles.com/articles/manage...nge_Filter.html

 

[naomilovesherfish]

[URL="http/www.aquarticles.com/articles/manage...nge_Filter.html"]http/www.aquarticles.com/articles/manage...nge_Filter.html[/URL]

hi nosoup4you i have looked at that would this do the same thing??

naomi
xxx

 

[nosoup4you]

They both work on the same theory...I think that you will get better results enclosing the bottom in some sort of container (such as the food container used in the link).

 

[naomilovesherfish]

They both work on the same theory...I think that you will get better results enclosing the bottom in some sort of container (such as the food container used in the link).

if it is closed at the bottom how will it filter properly how would i clean this without removing the bacteria that i need??

naomi
xxx

 

[Tolak]

Thanks for the picture & diagram, it helps me visualize what you are talking about. If you could put a little gravel on the inside, between the tubing & sponge you should be good, putting a few holes in the tubing would be better.

The fry won't swim down the tube, as there is water flow coming out created by the rising bubbles. I use something similar, and home made in all my fry tanks, and have never seen any fry swim down the tube.

The sponge is slid up in the first picture to show the holes. A sponge filter is mainly a bio filter, debris is removed by water changes & siphoning the bottom.

 

[naomilovesherfish]

Thanks for the picture & diagram, it helps me visualize what you are talking about. If you could put a little gravel on the inside, between the tubing & sponge you should be good, putting a few holes in the tubing would be better.

The fry won't swim down the tube, as there is water flow coming out created by the rising bubbles. I use something similar, and home made in all my fry tanks, and have never seen any fry swim down the tube.

The sponge is slid up in the first picture to show the holes. A sponge filter is mainly a bio filter, debris is removed by water changes & siphoning the bottom.

so this will stop the amonnia build up then??? do you use gravel on yours???

thanks
naomi
xxx