Help On Fishless Cycling

[Chris Wright]

Hi,
I'm making progress on my Fluval Edge fishless setup cycle, but need some reassurance. The ammonia reliably gets eaten down from 3.7ppm to nil in 12 hrs, up until yesterday the nitrite was dropping down to 0.2 in 12 hrs and to nil in under 18 hrs.
Yesterday I stirred up a grain of sand into the filter pump and had to remove and clean it. Whilst doing that, I carefully put the filter medium basket straight into the tank and when replacing it in the filter, I immediately filled the filter up with tank water. This morning the nitrite is still around 2ppm although the ammonia has again dropped from 3.7 to nil overnight. Have I screwed up the nitrite eating bacteria and if so how? If this happens each time I have to clean or replace one of the filter mediums how long is it likely to take to recover?

 

[Chris Wright]

Hi,
I'm making progress on my Fluval Edge fishless setup cycle, but need some reassurance. The ammonia reliably gets eaten down from 3.7ppm to nil in 12 hrs, up until yesterday the nitrite was dropping down to 0.2 in 12 hrs and to nil in under 18 hrs.
Yesterday I stirred up a grain of sand into the filter pump and had to remove and clean it. Whilst doing that, I carefully put the filter medium basket straight into the tank and when replacing it in the filter, I immediately filled the filter up with tank water. This morning the nitrite is still around 2ppm although the ammonia has again dropped from 3.7 to nil overnight. Have I screwed up the nitrite eating bacteria and if so how? If this happens each time I have to clean or replace one of the filter mediums how long is it likely to take to recover?

Update: 16:00hrs: Nitrite is now back down to zero from the reading of 2ppm this morning. I guess the bacteria were just sulking from having been disturbed. Seriously though, I suppose it's logical that the nitrite eating must lag behind the ammonia eating. I've topped the ammonia up to around the 3ppm level again so we'll see what tomorrow morning brings....

 

[OldMan47]

You are doing fine so far Chris. Would you like me to move this thread to the New to the Hobby area where it will get more attention for cycling questions?

 

[Chris Wright]

You are doing fine so far Chris. Would you like me to move this thread to the New to the Hobby area where it will get more attention for cycling questions?

Yes please. Sorry if it was in the wrong section.
Chris

 

[Chris Wright]

Hi,
I'm making progress on my Fluval Edge fishless setup cycle, but need some reassurance. The ammonia reliably gets eaten down from 3.7ppm to nil in 12 hrs, up until yesterday the nitrite was dropping down to 0.2 in 12 hrs and to nil in under 18 hrs.
Yesterday I stirred up a grain of sand into the filter pump and had to remove and clean it. Whilst doing that, I carefully put the filter medium basket straight into the tank and when replacing it in the filter, I immediately filled the filter up with tank water. This morning the nitrite is still around 2ppm although the ammonia has again dropped from 3.7 to nil overnight. Have I screwed up the nitrite eating bacteria and if so how? If this happens each time I have to clean or replace one of the filter mediums how long is it likely to take to recover?

Update: 16:00hrs: Nitrite is now back down to zero from the reading of 2ppm this morning. I guess the bacteria were just sulking from having been disturbed. Seriously though, I suppose it's logical that the nitrite eating must lag behind the ammonia eating. I've topped the ammonia up to around the 3ppm level again so we'll see what tomorrow morning brings....

This morning the ammonia and nitrite were both zero around 14 hrs after ammonia was added. Best result yet!

 

[Chris Wright]

Hi,
I'm making progress on my Fluval Edge fishless setup cycle, but need some reassurance. The ammonia reliably gets eaten down from 3.7ppm to nil in 12 hrs, up until yesterday the nitrite was dropping down to 0.2 in 12 hrs and to nil in under 18 hrs.
Yesterday I stirred up a grain of sand into the filter pump and had to remove and clean it. Whilst doing that, I carefully put the filter medium basket straight into the tank and when replacing it in the filter, I immediately filled the filter up with tank water. This morning the nitrite is still around 2ppm although the ammonia has again dropped from 3.7 to nil overnight. Have I screwed up the nitrite eating bacteria and if so how? If this happens each time I have to clean or replace one of the filter mediums how long is it likely to take to recover?

Update: 16:00hrs: Nitrite is now back down to zero from the reading of 2ppm this morning. I guess the bacteria were just sulking from having been disturbed. Seriously though, I suppose it's logical that the nitrite eating must lag behind the ammonia eating. I've topped the ammonia up to around the 3ppm level again so we'll see what tomorrow morning brings....

This morning the ammonia and nitrite were both zero around 14 hrs after ammonia was added. Best result yet!

Same again but in 12hrs this time from 3.7ppm ammonia. I think it's done!

 

[fishface59]

Hi,
I'm making progress on my Fluval Edge fishless setup cycle, but need some reassurance. The ammonia reliably gets eaten down from 3.7ppm to nil in 12 hrs, up until yesterday the nitrite was dropping down to 0.2 in 12 hrs and to nil in under 18 hrs.
Yesterday I stirred up a grain of sand into the filter pump and had to remove and clean it. Whilst doing that, I carefully put the filter medium basket straight into the tank and when replacing it in the filter, I immediately filled the filter up with tank water. This morning the nitrite is still around 2ppm although the ammonia has again dropped from 3.7 to nil overnight. Have I screwed up the nitrite eating bacteria and if so how? If this happens each time I have to clean or replace one of the filter mediums how long is it likely to take to recover?

Hi Chris!
I'm not new to the hobby but I'm new to this forum and I'm not exactly sure how to use it correctly, I do hope this is ok! I'd like to know what you are using to produce the necessary ammonia for the cycling process.
James.

 

[OldMan47]

Welcome to the forum Fishface.
You are doing fine Chris. We generally try to wait a week or so and watch the 12 hour results, just to be sure things are consistent, before adding any fish.

 

[Chris Wright]

Hi,
I'm making progress on my Fluval Edge fishless setup cycle, but need some reassurance. The ammonia reliably gets eaten down from 3.7ppm to nil in 12 hrs, up until yesterday the nitrite was dropping down to 0.2 in 12 hrs and to nil in under 18 hrs.
Yesterday I stirred up a grain of sand into the filter pump and had to remove and clean it. Whilst doing that, I carefully put the filter medium basket straight into the tank and when replacing it in the filter, I immediately filled the filter up with tank water. This morning the nitrite is still around 2ppm although the ammonia has again dropped from 3.7 to nil overnight. Have I screwed up the nitrite eating bacteria and if so how? If this happens each time I have to clean or replace one of the filter mediums how long is it likely to take to recover?

Hi Chris!
I'm not new to the hobby but I'm new to this forum and I'm not exactly sure how to use it correctly, I do hope this is ok! I'd like to know what you are using to produce the necessary ammonia for the cycling process.
James.

Household Ammonia solution from Boots. It's 9.5% solution in water. Use the test kit to determine how many drops from the bottle make 4ppm in the tank. I found the calculator on this forum is very good as long as you put in the 9.5% solution into it.

 

[waterdrop]

Agree with OM47, sounds like you've hit "double-zeros" and just watching it repeat that drop for a week (which we often call the "qualifying week") should ensure that it will not "mini-cycle" on you when you add the first stocking of fish!

Also, re the ammonia discussion, its always good to verify the acheived ammonia level, via your test kit, rather than just taking the calculator's number. Ammonia (a gas) can vary in the water solution of the bottle once its been opened.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[fishface59]

Hi,
I'm making progress on my Fluval Edge fishless setup cycle, but need some reassurance. The ammonia reliably gets eaten down from 3.7ppm to nil in 12 hrs, up until yesterday the nitrite was dropping down to 0.2 in 12 hrs and to nil in under 18 hrs.
Yesterday I stirred up a grain of sand into the filter pump and had to remove and clean it. Whilst doing that, I carefully put the filter medium basket straight into the tank and when replacing it in the filter, I immediately filled the filter up with tank water. This morning the nitrite is still around 2ppm although the ammonia has again dropped from 3.7 to nil overnight. Have I screwed up the nitrite eating bacteria and if so how? If this happens each time I have to clean or replace one of the filter mediums how long is it likely to take to recover?

Hi Chris!
I'm not new to the hobby but I'm new to this forum and I'm not exactly sure how to use it correctly, I do hope this is ok! I'd like to know what you are using to produce the necessary ammonia for the cycling process.
James.

Household Ammonia solution from Boots. It's 9.5% solution in water. Use the test kit to determine how many drops from the bottle make 4ppm in the tank. I found the calculator on this forum is very good as long as you put in the 9.5% solution into it.

 

[fishface59]

Hi,
I'm making progress on my Fluval Edge fishless setup cycle, but need some reassurance. The ammonia reliably gets eaten down from 3.7ppm to nil in 12 hrs, up until yesterday the nitrite was dropping down to 0.2 in 12 hrs and to nil in under 18 hrs.
Yesterday I stirred up a grain of sand into the filter pump and had to remove and clean it. Whilst doing that, I carefully put the filter medium basket straight into the tank and when replacing it in the filter, I immediately filled the filter up with tank water. This morning the nitrite is still around 2ppm although the ammonia has again dropped from 3.7 to nil overnight. Have I screwed up the nitrite eating bacteria and if so how? If this happens each time I have to clean or replace one of the filter mediums how long is it likely to take to recover?

Hi Chris!
I'm not new to the hobby but I'm new to this forum and I'm not exactly sure how to use it correctly, I do hope this is ok! I'd like to know what you are using to produce the necessary ammonia for the cycling process.
James.

Household Ammonia solution from Boots. It's 9.5% solution in water. Use the test kit to determine how many drops from the bottle make 4ppm in the tank. I found the calculator on this forum is very good as long as you put in the 9.5% solution into it.

Hi again Chris!
I was in touch with one of the fish companies, (Aquarian), a year or so ago about this same subject, as I wanted to try it myself, and was told household ammonia isn't suitable to use as it contains, among other things, preservatives and stabilisers which are harmful to the fish and the aquatic environment generally. I can't remember the person's name that I was in contact with but he is one of their top people. He told me, (and I am being perfectly serious), that the only source of safe and pure ammonia that is suitable for this purpose and that is easily available is 'human urine', please believe me, this is true! I tried it and obtained ammonia readings but abandoned the experiment after a short time because I decided that it's impossible to know when the filter is sufficiently mature for a given number of fish. You would have to arrive at the point where the ammonia you're putting in, and that the filter is clearing, exactly matches the ammonia output from the number of fish you intend to keep in the aquarium and I think that's impossible to achieve. You can't hurry the nitrifying bacteria as they work at their own pace and whether you cycle with or without fish the maturation/cycling time in each case will be the same. I decided after my experiments that cycling with fish is the best method. You always know where you are and there are no uncertainties. To safeguard the fish against toxic ammonia during the cycling process I use 'API's Ammo Lock', which I have proved to be invaluable. In my experience over the years, cycling has always been complete between 5 and 6 weeks using my standard bacterial additive, 'King British Safe Water'.
One final and very important thing to note: if you or anybody reading this is planning to use 'Tetra's Safe Start' live bacteria product to start up a new aquarium or filter, DO NOT under any circumstances use 'Ammo Lock' or any other ammonia detoxifying product because I have discovered recently from my own experience that 'Tetra Safe Start' can not process locked up ammonia and you will be faced with a very critical situation.
I hope very much that this has been of interest and indeed help to you and anybody else who has read this.
James.

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, we periodically get statements like the Aquarian fellow has made but they all miss the mark and have been discussed and discussed years ago. Urine was long ago considered unacceptable because of various drugs and organics that can be present in the urine, not the ammonia, which would work just fine. The fear of household ammonia he expressed is just a variation on the ever-present concern that the ammonia not have dyes, fragrances, surfactants or soaps present and this has turned out to be not too hard to avoid. We see sometimes dozens of fishless cycling cases a month and its been going on for years with the few cases of drop-outs here and there nearly always related to lack of patience, which would of course apply to any cycling type really. Going back to a fish-in method really only takes one back to the same old crutch that the gill and nerve damage that is potentially shortening their lives is not something the aquarist can easily see. I think the other misunderstanding here is that the colony sizes of the Nitrosomonas spp. and the Nitrospira spp. are not meant at all to match the initial bioload but to be significantly larger such that they then handily drop back in size to match the given bioload. Having them exactly match or be smaller would not work. There are plenty of us "old hobbyists" who have practiced all the old ways and know how they work but are now adopting this new technology fishface59, you should give it a try sometime, even if just out of curiosity. WD