HELP - loaches much worse

[Weeze]

Since posting yesterday, whitespot has dropped of all tetras in the tank, plec has more spots but seems fine- gill movement normal and still eating. However the loaches seem much worse,they will not settle and are hovering vertical around the tank. the one that has been under the weather for weeks is really pitiful. He has clamped fins, is hovering around crashing into things. He looks like he has literally been rolled in sugar. His tail fin is all ragged and one of his eyes is cloudy with spots in. I don't think he has eaten in a long time, he looks thinner.
How much longer do I give this? The poor fish is really suffering. Is it usual for ich to get worse before it gets better? i am still new to this - first experience of ich.
the local aquatics centre will euthanaise if i ask them, but i want to know that he has no chance of survival first. This is a really upsetting dilema as I love my Loaches very much and do not want to be the cause of unecessary suffering.
PLEASE HELP Any suggetions?

 

[emma12321]

Hi weeze,

Don't give up on him yet I had a really bad outbreak a couple of years ago which affected 4 clown loach. What treatment are you using? I used protozin at half dose and it took 4 courses of treatment to get rid of it. 2 were as bad as yours sounds and one died, the other lost most of his tail and dorsal fin and looked terrible but he made a full recovery, it took about 4 months for his fins to grow back and now the only difference between him and another of his size, is a filament that sticks out of the end of his dorsal fin about half a centimeter like an extra bit that grew. It took a while for his fins to look like they should, they were a bit see through for a while but now he is fine.

Hope yours makes a full recovery

Emma

 

[Weeze]

Thanks for replying Emma, thought I was on my own for a while. i am using WS3
at full dose on advice from aquatics centre. I am concerned that this might be making loaches respiration worse. He is face down in a plant at the moment. I have been treating since Sunday and then every other day since. Also i now have one of the hoplo catfishes swimming up and down at the front of the tank. He appears to have a swollen red gill.

 

[Miss Dib Dabs]

Ich will probably only kill them if it gets in their gills and damages them. It did it to my 3 young pictus cats.
Keep at it. Don't give up on them. Try leaving the lights off in the tank for a few days too. Can help kill off the bacteria and be less stressful on the fish. At the end of the course you could try doing a 50% w/c and using a different whitespot treatment. Waterlife make one called protozin that works well. I don't know if there's one that works best on scaleless fish or not. Might be worth researching.
Hugs,
P.

 

[Weeze]

Thanks P, got a nasty feeling it might have gone that far, hence very rapid gill movement. There is no recommended length of treatment withWS3 on the instructions, only to use it once more after spots disappear. Everyone keeps recommending Protazin, should I change? Temp now about 29.5c.

 

[Weeze]

Just to update, i sadly found one of the loaches dead in the bottom of the tank this morning. Very upset and disappointed. Now have to concentrate on trying to get the other one through this. He is still flicking a lot, but on a positive still came out for food last night. Can anyone tell me how long it takes to get rid of, have now been treating for a week.

 

[Bloo]

Oh dear sorry to hear Weeze. I've not treated Clown Loaches before (what loaches are you treating - can't see), though have some others - with the Interpet Anti White Spot + and they've been absolutely fine and everything cleared up in a matter of a few days.

However if you DO decided to change meds, be very very careful.
Do a water change and run some carbon on the filter for say a minimum of 6 hours - to make sure that all traces of the old meds is gone.
Mixing two different meds - even if treating for the same disease - is generally a risky thing to do.

Good luck

 

[Weeze]

Thanks Bloozoo2, They are clown loaches. prone to whitespot and not good with meds from what I can see from postings. Other fish in the tank have recovered fine. Pleck still with spots but no rapid gill movement. Temp 28c. do you think this is hot enough? The remaining Loach still has a few spots and as mentioned, still flicking a lot with rapid gill movement. I was going to do another water change (25%) later. More treatment (WS3) not due till tomorrow. Do you think this will help? Also not had tank lights on for last three days.

 

[Bloo]

I generally tend to stick to recommended dosing. In cases I haven't, things went wrong
So if you are not due to have another treatment until tomorrow, do not do any water changes today or treatments today. 28 is safe to stick with - any higher over a longer time frame won't be great and might cause more distress.
Unfortunately (or fortunately) I've never had to treat Clown Loaches before as I've never kept them. So I'm probably not your best Clown Loach advisor to speak give advise. But by the sounds of it you are definitely taking the right steps to help treat them.

Best of luck with the remaining Clown.

 

[Weeze]

Thanks Bloozoo2, will keep you posted as to progress.

 

[jollysue]

My 2 new 1.5" clown loaches got ich when I put a trio of bleeding hearts in w/o quarantining. One of the loaches had always been more vital than the other.

A USA brand, Aquarium Products, has 3 levels of ich treatment. I used the mid level aggressive one, recommended by an enthusiastic hobbiest and lfs owner. I had to dose at half strength because it was a tetra community tank. All the fish made it, but the one quieter gentler clown. She languished with her friend beside her even when he had recovered.

It took two treatment cyles to eliminate the symptoms, but I was medicating at 1/2 dose.

I am with bloozoo2. Stick with a treatment, and it's directions. Call the manufacturer if you seek more instructions. They may have a treatment protocol or an alternative. Just as the one I use has different meds depending on the seriousness. When you begin a treatment follow it though unless directed by a professional to change it.

If you are not satisfied with a product, change for the next time. I think it is good to try to stick with a brand that has a variety of meds. That way they know how they will interact and can advise. They want their product to work.

Try an air stone to increase the oxygen if everyone agrees.

I'm sorry about your loss.

 

[Weeze]

Thanks jollysue. Have decided to stick with this treatment, although strong stuff, has been recommended by a few people. I do not think i have anything to lose apart from more fish of course, but the stess from waiting and then changing treatment might make things worse anyway. I do have an airstone in which is on all of the time.

 

[WILDER]

Not the writer of this information below.


TREATING FISH SENSITVE TO ICH MEDICINES

(By Spotz)

Many species of fish are sensitive to ich medication. Included in this article is the way to safely treat loaches without side affects. Note: this is a cut & paste job on my part.

Raise the tank temperature to around 86 degrees provided that you have no cold-water species like weather loaches, goldfish, minnows etc. Add areation by dropping in an airstone, or anything that will agitate the surface of the water to increase oxygen supply. The warmer the water gets, the less dissolved oxygen it can hold. Darken the tank to reduce stress. Remove carbon from the filter. Add the medication at 1/2 dose. Treat for 16-18 days. Make sure you do the water-changes indicated on the bottle.

The reason that you must treat for 16-18 days is because the cysts contain the eggs. Sure, they fall off, but then the eggs hatch, and if you've stopped medicating, the fish get reinfected. Also, the ich parasite is only vulnerable to medication for 3 days after it hatches. Say a parasite passes the vulnerable stage just as you pour in the medication. That parasite will finish the life cycle which is definitly longer than two days. It will form a new cyst, and drop off, and you will have more than 300 new parasites ready to seek out a new host.

There is a second way to treat ich. This has been rumored to work. Raise the temp to 86 deg F. Increase areation. Add a small amount of aquarium salt to the tank. Cover the tank with a dark material. Take care not to block all vents. Turn off the lights inside the tank. Try not to disturb the tank for a few days, except to feed and check on progress. Nobody knows why this works. The salt stimulates the mucous layer of the fish making it thicker. At the same time, the salt acts like an antiseptic, preventing secondary infection. The darkness helps calm the fish, strengthening the immune response. The high temperatures stress the ich, as well as increasing metobolic functions, and reducing the lifespan.

Ich medications

 

[IMCL85]

I dont really suggest treatment such as potozon kind of stuff so r copper. What size is ur tank/planted?/type of loaches?. Generally Its better to treat ich with heat other then with medication. Medication do more harm then good. Normally at 86f ich is already have a hard time completing their life cycle in some case 95 is acceptable to some loaches species. And during ich its suggested to remove any plants inside ur tank. Because plants give oxygen and thats what ich parasite needs. Remember its not the heat that kill the parasite it was the lag of oxygen in high temperature that kills the parasite also remember to remove lip and add air stone during this time to ensure ur fish wouldn't die from lag of oxygen. I suggest you also do alot of water change during this period of time like once every 1-2 days to vacum the gravel take out parasite that stay on gravel. If you see farder suffering from ur loaches like not eating/breathing heavily its better to let him go in peace rather then more suffering. Good luck.

 

[Weeze]

Thanks everyone, have phoned WS3 helpline today for advice as the loach is still poorly He is now hiding in the back of the tank and now does not come out for food. he looks like he has slightly less spots but is still flicking and has rapid gill movement. They have advised to stick with the same dose (three quarters) I might do slightly less in case the stress of the high dose is making the problem worse. All the other fish who were affected have recovered fine. As for increasing the temp further (on 29c already), i am worried that this will decrease the oxygen in the water further,despite airstone. His breathing is already laboured. I have a feeling that the loss of his mate and being on his own is also making things worse.
She also suggested removing the loach to another tank and using half dose and some salt, similar to what is mentioned above. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? If so how long would he need to be in there? Or do you think this might be too stressfull?