Greetings

[Baboon]

Hi all. Just joined the forums after reading them for a while. I'm Keith, live in Staffordshire, England with my wife, 2 dogs, 3 cats, budgie and my fish.
I run a Fluvel Edge - I realise this tank isn't to everyones taste and has its fair share of problems but I'm of the belief anything can be made to work if you do it right. Tank only been stocked fully since yesterday. I have Zebra Danios, Sunbursts, Guppies and a Loach. Got 11 fish in total in the tank. This is my first fish tank and am keen to learn and look forward to picking up hints and tips from these forums. You may need to forgive what appear to be rookie questions, but please bear with me - I gotta learn somehow!

Baboon

 

[micko]

hello and welcome to the forum.

have you read up on doing a fishless cycle?

 

[c-dub]

Welcome, good luck with your aquatic endeavours.

 

[Baboon]

hello and welcome to the forum.

have you read up on doing a fishless cycle?

Hi!

Yes I have read up on the fishless cycle. I had everything planned and was going to do it by the book. However, I did a lot of asking around my local fish stores and each and every one of them said there is no need to do a fishless cycle - particularly in that tank, but to put some Tetra Safe Start in the tank, and then 10 minutes later add the fish. I was a little bit confused what to do and still am not sure whether I did the right thing but what I did was fill the tank, and then add a couple of fish the next day and then 1 week later add the rest of the fish. I was assured by 3 local fish stores this was absolutely fine and no one had ever known a failure if the safe start was used.
Maybe this is a trap a lot of rookies fall into - tell me if it is! All fish seem to be doing fine so far - early days though.
Was I right? Was I wrong? I can take criticism and being told I'm a donut!!!

 

[KittyKat]

I am not trying to be mean, but I hope to make you realise exactly how bad your current situation is.

Yes I have read up on the fishless cycle. I had everything planned and was going to do it by the book. However, I did a lot of asking around my local fish stores and each and every one of them said there is no need to do a fishless cycle - particularly in that tank, but to put some Tetra Safe Start in the tank, and then 10 minutes later add the fish.

And this is how they get you to kill the fish so that you buy replacements and spend more money.

I was a little bit confused what to do and still am not sure whether I did the right thing but what I did was fill the tank, and then add a couple of fish the next day and then 1 week later add the rest of the fish. I was assured by 3 local fish stores this was absolutely fine and no one had ever known a failure if the safe start was used.
Maybe this is a trap a lot of rookies fall into - tell me if it is! All fish seem to be doing fine so far - early days though.
Was I right? Was I wrong? I can take criticism and being told I'm a donut!!!

This was a very cruel thing to do to the fish. Check your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH with a liquid test kit. If you do not have a test kit, do a 90% water change with warm, dechlorinated water immediately and go get a test kit. Your fish are probably swimming in a very toxic soup now.

I have Zebra Danios, Sunbursts, Guppies and a Loach. Got 11 fish in total in the tank.

This is also bad:
* zebra danios should be kept only in 3+ft long tanks and in groups of 6+
* what exactly are sunbursts? Platys? The tank is too small for platys and if you have females, prepare for babies and overstocked tank
* the tank is far from ideal for guppies, but a group of only males will survive
* loaches need at least a 3+ft tank and should be kept in groups of 6+

In other words, your best option is to take all the fish back and do a fish-less cycle. Your current fish are not suitable for the tank anyway.

 

[Baboon]

I am not trying to be mean, but I hope to make you realise exactly how bad your current situation is.

Yes I have read up on the fishless cycle. I had everything planned and was going to do it by the book. However, I did a lot of asking around my local fish stores and each and every one of them said there is no need to do a fishless cycle - particularly in that tank, but to put some Tetra Safe Start in the tank, and then 10 minutes later add the fish.

And this is how they get you to kill the fish so that you buy replacements and spend more money.

I was a little bit confused what to do and still am not sure whether I did the right thing but what I did was fill the tank, and then add a couple of fish the next day and then 1 week later add the rest of the fish. I was assured by 3 local fish stores this was absolutely fine and no one had ever known a failure if the safe start was used.
Maybe this is a trap a lot of rookies fall into - tell me if it is! All fish seem to be doing fine so far - early days though.
Was I right? Was I wrong? I can take criticism and being told I'm a donut!!!

This was a very cruel thing to do to the fish. Check your ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH with a liquid test kit. If you do not have a test kit, do a 90% water change with warm, dechlorinated water immediately and go get a test kit. Your fish are probably swimming in a very toxic soup now.

I have Zebra Danios, Sunbursts, Guppies and a Loach. Got 11 fish in total in the tank.

This is also bad:
* zebra danios should be kept only in 3+ft long tanks and in groups of 6+
* what exactly are sunbursts? Platys? The tank is too small for platys and if you have females, prepare for babies and overstocked tank
* the tank is far from ideal for guppies, but a group of only males will survive
* loaches need at least a 3+ft tank and should be kept in groups of 6+

In other words, your best option is to take all the fish back and do a fish-less cycle. Your current fish are not suitable for the tank anyway.

There seems to be a lot of this througout this forum - LFS giving people advice that something is ok and it turning out not to be ok. You'd have thought they would be well used to advising on start-up systems and give advice that's in the best interests of the fish. Fluval themselves say that Danios are 'Edge friendly'. Why is bad LFS advice so common?
I'll do a water test and come back with the results. Here's hoping it's not as bad as it sounds......

 

[micko]

The LFS are there to make money, if they sell you. 5 fish at £10 that die and you go and send another £10 for the exact same fish then that's business for them, an extra sale of 5 fish. They'll feed you up with all the possible rubbish they can to make money. Extra money for this new stuff that they tell you that you just pour it in and add your fish is useless too.

If you do have any questions there's a lot of people on here willing to help you out for the good of your fish. Most LFS's are going to tell you anything to make money. Sad but true.

Research all fish before buying so you know what your doing so they can't give you anymore rubbish advice. Your not the only one who has been caught out like this, many others including myself had to learn the hard way.

I must add there are a few, good LFS's around but the bad ones are more common. I'm having to drive nearly an hour away from my town to find a good one.

 

[Baboon]

The LFS are there to make money, if they sell you. 5 fish at £10 that die and you go and send another £10 for the exact same fish then that's business for them, an extra sale of 5 fish. They'll feed you up with all the possible rubbish they can to make money. Extra money for this new stuff that they tell you that you just pour it in and add your fish is useless too.

If you do have any questions there's a lot of people on here willing to help you out for the good of your fish. Most LFS's are going to tell you anything to make money. Sad but true.

Research all fish before buying so you know what your doing so they can't give you anymore rubbish advice. Your not the only one who has been caught out like this, many others including myself had to learn the hard way.

I must add there are a few, good LFS's around but the bad ones are more common. I'm having to drive nearly an hour away from my town to find a good one.

You're right. One doesn't always think about it that way - they are ultimately there to make money.
I have the water test results - the water is perfect. 0 ammonia, everything else normal.
I sense this will be a steep, well, vertical learning curve!!!
I've hoovered out some of the faecal matter from the bottom of the tank (why does this accumulate? Shouldn't the filter get rid of it?), added some new water and will keep a very close eye on how things are going.

 

[FishAreFriendsNotFood10]

the filter is purely there for filtration purposes converting the ammonia into nitrite and then finnally nitrate (it will also polish the water and remove medication from the water if it has charcoal) check out this link :http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=271928&hl= helps you get a feel for how your tank works

keep testing your water and changing it as needed youll be looking at a water change every day for the next few weeks to get things sorted

the poo will always accumualte at the bottom as its not very floaty lol so thats why you hoover your sand and gravel just to get rid of the decomposing matter.

I'd also take the advice of kitty kat and rethink your stock all those fish are really unsuitable for a lil aquarium like that sorry to say that

 

[KittyKat]

I have Zebra Danios, Sunbursts, Guppies and a Loach. Got 11 fish in total in the tank.

* zebra danios should be kept only in 3+ft long tanks and in groups of 6+

Fluval themselves say that Danios are 'Edge friendly'.

An Edge is galaxy danio friendly.. but not zebra danio friendly. Fluval care about as much for the fish as an average LFS, so they just put down fish you are likely to have heard of as recommended. I have tried writing to manufacturers a number of times about this, but have never had a reply even when offering evidence or just asking them to clarify their reasoning.

I have the water test results - the water is perfect. 0 ammonia, everything else normal.

This is very positive, even if extremely surprising. Please do post the rest of the readings as exact numbers.. nitrite is also toxic at over 0.25 ppm, for example.

 

[Plecostomos Fan]

May i ask what LFS stands for? i googled it and got no meaningful answers sry Baboon but i think your still in a lot of trouble with "new tank syndrome".

 

[micko]

LFS stand for local fish shop.

 

[OldMan47]

Welcome to our forum Baboon.
I think you are entirely correct when you say that any tank can be made to work. Each and every one of us, no matter how expert we are today, started out with our own first tank. There is nothing to be embarrassed about there.
The learning curve on the nitrogen cycle can indeed be quite steep. Many of us started back before there was an internet to give advice and had success, after a time, with fish-in cycling. It was not called that back then but the fish don't care what you call your approach. In fact a fishless cycle is far less stress on the fishkeeper than a fish-in cycle but either one can be carried out with no problems for the fish. (no it is not cruel in any way to do a fish-in cycle Kitty Kat) I sometimes get ahead of myself with a new tank and end up doing a fish-in finish to cycling a new filter. By merely doing a 90% daily water change until the cycle completes, the fish never know there was a problem and the filter completes its cycle quite nicely. If I encounter a new person who has no fish yet, I will never encourage a fish-in cycle since it is so much more work, but that does not mean it can't work just fine for the fish.

 

[KittyKat]

In fact a fishless cycle is far less stress on the fishkeeper than a fish-in cycle but either one can be carried out with no problems for the fish. (no it is not cruel in any way to do a fish-in cycle Kitty Kat)

I was referring to stocking a tank fully with unsuitable fish, not purely to fish-in cycling. But if you insist.. the average fish-in cycle does not involve water changes, so the fish are poisoned quite often. I have seen 1000s more fish die due to irresponsible fish-in cycles than I have due to responsible fish-in cycles and fish-less cycles. To me, that is enough to classify overstocking a new tank to the full as "cruel".

No, I do not have a problem with responsible fish-in cycles and I do often seed heavily and silent cycle (which is a form of fish-in cycling), but I would still never recommend any sort of fish-in cycles to beginners. A tank full of household ammonia is much more forgiving of mistakes than a tank full of live animals.

I also find that fish-less cycles are much more likely to force the beginner in question to understand the nitrogen cycle better and gives them more time to chose good stocking.. on average, I see bad stocking in fish-in cycles about 70-80% of the time, in fish-less cycles, about 5% of the time.

 

[CrazyAirborne]

to the forum baboon and I hope all turns out well for you! just keep up on those water changes!