Green Water

[dp911]

Hi there

I'm new to this forum and would like some help or advice for my aquarium. I have a community tropical fish aquarium which I set up nearly 4 months ago. It's a 250lts aquarium and I have 4 clown loaches, 3 Angels, 2 Silver Sharks, 2 brittlenose catfish,1 pictus catfish,3 gouramis and 2 dwarf gouramis. I also have a biological canister filter. I do regular water tests and have a stable ph 7, gh 10, kh 7, zero ammonia and nitrite and a low level of nitrate. The issue is that I'm having a very high level of phosphate and I'm quite sure it's contributing to make the water slightly green. It is extremely annoying as I really want to get this right and make the water crystal clear. I bought Phos Guard and placed it in the filter but it doesn't seem to work and no changes have occurred. I have also done a regular 25% water change once/twice a week.I also have a UV filter installed. Tested my tap water and it doesn't have any phosphate in it.My water temperature stays at 26C. Can someone please help out and give me some advice as I have done everything I could so far

Thanks guys

 

[xmurdererx]

have you got any algae in your tank or is the water just green

 

[always4lora]

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=101658

have alook here, its a topic about algae eaters but also go's into what types of algae...

 

[aaronnorth]

Ammonia is often the main cause green water, even though your test kit says 0, you will still have ammonia present in the water, test kits are calibrated for levels safe for fish. an imbalance of nutrients can also cause a problem

If there is an imbalance in nutrients then fixing it will sometimes make it go away by itself after a while. A large 50% water change, then a three day blackout followed by another large water change will do well and sometimes may clear it. A UV steriliser/clarifier or diatom filter will clear it up very quickly and is often the only way to clear it.

 

[waterdrop]

Hi there dp911 and welcome to TFF,

aaron is one of the experienced planted tank fellows, active over in the planted tank section and not only has he given you a good summary, but you'd probably be able to have a look over there for things related to green water, algae and his name etc. and find even more information. It gets discussed a lot.

I'm nowhere near as experienced but have been trying to read a lot of that stuff over the last year and from that reading I've gathered the distinct impression that phosphate/phosphorus levels in excess being a cause of algae is an out-of-date notion, probably an idea that was founded on some wrong conclusions from generalizations and then was latched on to by many people.

When you researched your filter, did you go by the manufacturers recommended tank size that it could handle or were you able to find out the actual flow rate that the pump head can maintain? If you knew your actual flow rate, did you calculate your "turnover rate" (number of exchanges of your full 250 litres in an hour that the filter can accomplish?)

There are some that feel that higher turnover may help lower the traces of ammonia that these algae like. Likewise, increasing your rate/effectiveness of gravel-cleaning should help some with trace amounts of ammonia, nitrate and phosphates. If you can manage it, trying something (might feel bothersome and radical, but) like cleaning out the mulm from your filter every 2 weeks, or even every week (rather than the normal average of every month or so) is another thing to try. Every filter will get some free clumping of "mulm" in the open water area of the filter, prior to where water enters the first coarse stage. Some think that this mulm can contribute to the imbalances that promote algae.

And of course its always good to review whether you're getting any surprise periods of sun hitting the tank or excess light level overall or too many hours. Probably this is not a problem given how carefully you've described your excellent maintenance. Anyway, don't want to sound like I know what will solve it for you here, as green water is a bit of a different beast it seems, but just thought I'd offer my "2 cents" from my reading.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Miss Wiggle]

hi there and welcome to the forum, treating algae in people's tanks can be a bit tricky as there's a lot of different things which can cause algae. to help us work out what your situation is then can you please answer the following questions. give us as much info as you possibly can, there may be something that you feel is an insignificant detail but is actually the cause of your problems so it's best to be as thorough as possible with your replies.

1 - is the tank in direct sunlight, can you give us a rough idea of how many hours of sunlight it gets everyday?

2 - what light bulbs do you have (wattage, colour spectrum of the bulb if you know it) and how long are they on for everyday?

3 - what sort of test kit are you using, whats the make and is it paper strips or liquid reagents?

4 - what is the make and model of your filter?

5 - can you fully describe your maintenance routine, what do you do on a weekly, monthly basis etc

that will do as a start, from your answers we may be able to suss out the reason behind the green water, it's always best to find the root cause of algae, you may find products to treat the water work short term but if you don't fix the cause then it'll just come back.

just as a quick note, the silver sharks and the clown loaches will both grow to approx 16" long and both need to be kept in large shoals, as a result of this they will outgrow your tank long term. So you may need to think about either getting a bigger tank or re-homing them. Now your tank is a reasonable size so no immediate panic, but something to think about over the next few months. Also I believe the pictus catfish would be happier in a group, i'm not 100% sure though but do a little research and you'll find out for definate soon and can sort that out as well.

 

[dp911]

Hi guys

I highly appreciate your help and advice. Now to answer some of your questions, there's one mistake that I did when I started setting up the aquarium. The guy from the store who sold me the filter told me that a filter with a flow rate of 250lts/hr would do the job. But then I read about it and found out that I needed a filter with a higher flow rate it was too late, I had already bought it. Also he recommended me the Eheim external filter which I thought was too expensive at the time but now realise that it would have been much better than the one I have now, a Bowini canister filter.
Anyway I've got the Eheim media in it now.Now back to the algae problem.One thing that I didn't mention is that my aquarium is situated next to a window. However I never open the curtain near the aquarium. Do you think that's the problem? Also,over the past few months I left the lights on from 9am-10pm. I only realised that it was too long a few days ago and reduced it from 13hrs a day to 8hrs. However I didn't turn it on at all for the last 2 days to try fix this algae problem. Should I leave it off for a longer period?
I have a double 40watts T8 white light system,which came with the package when I bought it. Must be the cheap lights and don't think it's doing a great job as I also have a few plants and some of their leaves are turning yellow.Any advice on this one? As I mentioned before the water is just slightly green and now I saw some green algae starting to build up on the rocks as well. Regarding the clown loaches and the silver sharks I'm aware that they will grow quite big and that's why I really want to get this 1st aquarium perfect before I move them to a new aquarium. I use the sera and jbl test kits. They are both in liquid forms.
On a weekly basis I do a 25% water change syphoning the gravels and cleaning the glass panes. On a monthly basis I clean the media in the filter, in the aquarium water of course. I've used algae fix to try solve the problem but didn't do anything.
Hope I've provided enough info so we can work on this problem together

Thanks again

 

[aaronnorth]

you can add an extra powerhead for more flow, it doesnt always have to come from fiters.

As long as there isnt sunlight shining onto the tank, then it will be fine. You shouldnt only just turn the lights off, but cover it up with blankets aswell, so that no daylight can get in.

Yellow leaves = nitrogen defficiency, or just not enough light, what species did you have? stick to:

cryptocorynes, anubias, java fern, moss balls, echindorous, elodea, mosses, hygrophillia...

 

[Miss Wiggle]

good info thanks

firstly the test kits are good, just wanted to rule it out as the test strips are dodgy as anything and could be reporting 0 ammonia when there is some in there, and ammonia is one of the things known to trigger algae. but if you've a good liquid kit and it read's 0 then you're OK from that side.

so long as youre not getting loads of direct sunlight onto the tank then the window won't be causing any problems.

glad you're aware of the fish size issues, respect you for wanting to get this set up perfect before you move on, no point biting off more than you can chew!

aaron is your man for plants, firstly lets make sure the plants you have are aquatic and suitable for your set up, do you know what species they are? if not then post pics up.

yes i would try a black out for 2/3 days and then go to 6 hrs a day of light and see what happens, could also add more easy growing plants like cabomba which will out compete the algae

 

[aaronnorth]

and ammonia is one of the things known to trigger algae. but if you've a good liquid kit and it read's 0 then you're OK from that side.

ammonia spikes can still occur that are big enough to trigger algae, yet still undetectable on test kits as you know, so ammonia could always play a part in it.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

actually i'm, interested in this one, do we know what level of ammonia you need to trigger algae?

i just know that a lot of ammonia can trigger it, not how much.

 

[waterdrop]

actually i'm, interested in this one, do we know what level of ammonia you need to trigger algae?

i just know that a lot of ammonia can trigger it, not how much.

I believe Dave Spencer has discussed it as being pockets and concentrations of ammonia that occur in the tank even though our liquid tests are showing zero ammonia. I could easily be wrong about that but it seemed like there were discussions of it being a localized effect, pockets of slightly higher concentration in still zones in the aquarium, in mulm in the filter and in areas very close to existing plants in the instances when they are giving off small amounts of ammonia.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Dave Spencer]

actually i'm, interested in this one, do we know what level of ammonia you need to trigger algae?

i just know that a lot of ammonia can trigger it, not how much.

Plants prefer to use ammonia as a primary source of N in a range of 0.5ppm to 2ppm. The levels in a well run planted tank, whilst at an absolute minimum, do still exist due to fish waste and various unobserved decaying processes. Below 0.5ppm and above 2ppm plants prefer NO3 as a source of N, so there is a window of opportunity for algae to take a foot hold at levels above 2ppm.

Whether there is a threshold below 0.5ppm for triggering algae, I don`t know, and haven`t been able to find out.

One other thing to consider is that light and trigger levels of ammonia bring algae, yet we all experince different types, making there a possible third trigger to determine which type we get. In know from experince that CO2 brings staghorn and BBA along, and low phosphates cause GSA, but what determines the other types?

Dave.

 

[aaronnorth]

actually i'm, interested in this one, do we know what level of ammonia you need to trigger algae?

i just know that a lot of ammonia can trigger it, not how much.

Also to add to Dave's comment, it is ammonia spikes that cause algae, you could run a tank with a fair amount of ammonia in the tank (the undectable ammonia on cheap kits) and you won get algae, however, if this suddenly jumps up for some reason (although still undetectable) it will most likely cause algae.

but what determines the other types?

low or an imbalance of nutrients and sunlight. are also causes of algae growth.