Green Terror
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minnnt
Fish Expert
I'm confused now i have just read that 
All different fish none of them are hybrids but I imagine hybrids can happen between species. The true Green Terror is .... #40## the classes got changed and Im not 100% on it but I think the the true one is Andinoacara Rivilatus (spelling) the Gold Saum is Aequidens sp.Gold Saum and the Silver Saum is Andinoacara Sthalsbergi - there are a few other local species as well that are not recognised yet though.
Wills
Wills
Not sure but I think you might be right there - just to complicate things further there are 2 species of Silver/White saums around one has 2 black stripes that show on the body and the other does not... But only one has been named the Sthalsbergi the other one is still just sp.white saum or sp.silver saum not sure how you would split them down.
Wills
Wills
Iv found this on a another site thats cleared things up a lot. i was gonna copy a link but it is to another forum so iv copied the guys thread. its safe to say what he calls the original green terror is not much like the green terror but still a really really really nice fish
NOTE: changed the names. Formerly the accurate name was Aequidens sp. "silbersaum", but now a new paper has changed the taxonomy, giving this species a real name (even before the goldsaums get a solid name! ). So now it is Andinoacara stalsbergi, instead of Aequidens sp. "silbersaum"
A brief overview: there are these acara like cichlids in South America that get a bit of size and attitude and color. Originally one species was described as Aequidens rivulatus and was labelled the "Green Terror" in the aquarium community. Until sometime in the 1980s...
in the 1980s, for various reasons from restricted access to the original GT to increased interest in the 'saums', the original GT disappeared and the new GTs that we have seen since then have all been Aequidens "Gold Saum". Some folks have gotten the less common Aequidens "Silver Saum".
So that's at least three species called green terrors! Yikes! And much confusion over which is which. Let's clear that up first...
Andinoacara sp. "Gold Saum": this is what you see everywhere. Stunning fish, you have to be fair and give them credit. These guys have the orange edges to their fins, which makes their identification easier. Their iridescent spots surround dark spots on their side.
Andinoacara sp. "false ? Silver Saum"???: same as Gold Saum, except a white edge to their fins. They also have the dark spots with irridescence around those spots. Some debate as to whether this is just a variety of the "Gold Saum" or if they are their own species.
Andinoacara stalsbergi (the true Green Terror): Very different actually. They do have the light edge to their fins like the silver saum, but notice the iridescence. The spots themselves are iridescent. And notice the other colors involved (blacks and reds in particular). These guys are smaller adults than the saums.
Reduced: 47% of original size [ 1352 x 902 ] - Click to view full image
Reduced: 54% of original size [ 1192 x 879 ] - Click to view full image
Reduced: 53% of original size [ 1216 x 572 ] - Click to view full image
*****
It is worth pointing out here that there is a TON of confusion. Part of the confusion comes from some aquarists calling the 'true' green terrors silver saums (or Silbersaum). They consider the silver saums I list here as variations of the gold saum (which they are). So it's a name game where scientists haven't stepped up yet. See some of this confusion here: http
/www.lem.net/alf/aeq.htm#rivulatus As you can see, there is a "true" Aequidens rivulatus, which is yet another species.
Geographically we are talking about different areas too. Peru highlands on the west side for true green terrors, and Ecuador as a rule for saums. see above website for specifics.
Aggression-wise, green terrors (the saums in particular) are extremely variable. You can get a psycho or a peaceful fish, so comparing 'attitude' between species doesn't work.
The return of the 'true' Green Terrors...
^One of Rapp's imported true GTs
Reduced: 96% of original size [ 670 x 625 ] - Click to view full image
^ likely one of the true rivulatus from 2004
Good ol' Jeff Rapps, from tangledupincichlids.com, has and continues to be one of the great sources of interesting and rare cichlids from Central and South America. He got some true GTs in 2004 and then in 2007. I have heard random reports of them being spawned but never got any verification when I asked these people for stories describing how they got them to spawn. When I heard that Rapps wasn't going to import them any more I used my $200 in credit at my lfs to buy 4 of them. These were barely 2 inches long.... so the price and the fact that getting a group of cichlids is the best way to spawn them = trouble spawning rare cichlids.... I also found that they were quite aggressive, which makes things tough too.
So, with that segue... I'll tell a rough story of how these guys spawned...
Late February I got 4 of these guys through my LFS, who's owner works regularly with Rapps. As mentioned, they were expensive wild fish that were small. But knowing that this could be the last shipment of them into the U.S. for some time, I jumped.
I brought them home and set them up in a 100 gal, even though they were only 2 inches. They grew like mad, which is another big difference between them and the saums. Saums are sloooooow growers.
Anyhow, within a week things were looking funny. I noticed that two were really colorful (males) and that one of these was getting big fast. The females were both acting 'funny' around him, not scared and not aggressive, interested for sure. I became optimistic but could see little of what was going on because these wild fish were extremely wary.
The larger male got INCREDIBLE color, which was hard to catch because of how the flash messed up colors. I did stay still long enough to get a couple shots...
March 2, 2007 (young male already colored up at 3 inches!!!)
What was really interesting was, even though they were really aggressive with each other... guppies did just fine in the tank with them!
Then it happened. I, on my way out of the fishroom, peeked into the side of the 100 gal. I saw fry. I was stunned and grabbed the video cam.
March 2, 2007 (first time fry were seen!)
It was awesome!!! And better yet, they wouldn't run and hide when I came in the room, so I could observe them swarming and eating. The bad side of this was the guppies then had a shot at eating a couple with the mother gone. After losing a couple fry, I removed all those stinkin guppies!
March 6, 2007 (young fry feeding)
The parental care was interesting. The male didn't seem to care for the fry much at all. However he didn't eat them either. The other male ended up dead and soon the other female had fry. She would actually hunt down the other females fry and there was NO love loss between the two ladies.
Second batch of fry:
Second female to spawn (notice there is a unique coppery color in the dorsal):
March 18, 2007 (male passes through fry cloud and female)
In this next vid the poor first female is hiding in the rocks with most of her fry taken out (by me). Her surviving fry got to a size and wariness that kept them alive and they grew the best.
March 18, 2007 (females interact, one is in rockwork, then male passes by)
I put the fry in various tanks to grow out and baby brine shrimp did them well!
April 15th, 2007 (six weeks old)
April 30th, 2007 (eight weeks old)
Fry in May:
Its a shame i cant copy the pictures or vids. the videos are really interesting. if you type stalsbergi into google it is the first one on the list
NOTE: changed the names. Formerly the accurate name was Aequidens sp. "silbersaum", but now a new paper has changed the taxonomy, giving this species a real name (even before the goldsaums get a solid name! ). So now it is Andinoacara stalsbergi, instead of Aequidens sp. "silbersaum"
A brief overview: there are these acara like cichlids in South America that get a bit of size and attitude and color. Originally one species was described as Aequidens rivulatus and was labelled the "Green Terror" in the aquarium community. Until sometime in the 1980s...
in the 1980s, for various reasons from restricted access to the original GT to increased interest in the 'saums', the original GT disappeared and the new GTs that we have seen since then have all been Aequidens "Gold Saum". Some folks have gotten the less common Aequidens "Silver Saum".
So that's at least three species called green terrors! Yikes! And much confusion over which is which. Let's clear that up first...
Andinoacara sp. "Gold Saum": this is what you see everywhere. Stunning fish, you have to be fair and give them credit. These guys have the orange edges to their fins, which makes their identification easier. Their iridescent spots surround dark spots on their side.
Andinoacara sp. "false ? Silver Saum"???: same as Gold Saum, except a white edge to their fins. They also have the dark spots with irridescence around those spots. Some debate as to whether this is just a variety of the "Gold Saum" or if they are their own species.
Andinoacara stalsbergi (the true Green Terror): Very different actually. They do have the light edge to their fins like the silver saum, but notice the iridescence. The spots themselves are iridescent. And notice the other colors involved (blacks and reds in particular). These guys are smaller adults than the saums.
Reduced: 47% of original size [ 1352 x 902 ] - Click to view full image
Reduced: 54% of original size [ 1192 x 879 ] - Click to view full image
Reduced: 53% of original size [ 1216 x 572 ] - Click to view full image
*****
It is worth pointing out here that there is a TON of confusion. Part of the confusion comes from some aquarists calling the 'true' green terrors silver saums (or Silbersaum). They consider the silver saums I list here as variations of the gold saum (which they are). So it's a name game where scientists haven't stepped up yet. See some of this confusion here: http
/www.lem.net/alf/aeq.htm#rivulatus As you can see, there is a "true" Aequidens rivulatus, which is yet another species. Geographically we are talking about different areas too. Peru highlands on the west side for true green terrors, and Ecuador as a rule for saums. see above website for specifics.
Aggression-wise, green terrors (the saums in particular) are extremely variable. You can get a psycho or a peaceful fish, so comparing 'attitude' between species doesn't work.
The return of the 'true' Green Terrors...
^One of Rapp's imported true GTs
Reduced: 96% of original size [ 670 x 625 ] - Click to view full image
^ likely one of the true rivulatus from 2004
Good ol' Jeff Rapps, from tangledupincichlids.com, has and continues to be one of the great sources of interesting and rare cichlids from Central and South America. He got some true GTs in 2004 and then in 2007. I have heard random reports of them being spawned but never got any verification when I asked these people for stories describing how they got them to spawn. When I heard that Rapps wasn't going to import them any more I used my $200 in credit at my lfs to buy 4 of them. These were barely 2 inches long.... so the price and the fact that getting a group of cichlids is the best way to spawn them = trouble spawning rare cichlids.... I also found that they were quite aggressive, which makes things tough too.
So, with that segue... I'll tell a rough story of how these guys spawned...
Late February I got 4 of these guys through my LFS, who's owner works regularly with Rapps. As mentioned, they were expensive wild fish that were small. But knowing that this could be the last shipment of them into the U.S. for some time, I jumped.
I brought them home and set them up in a 100 gal, even though they were only 2 inches. They grew like mad, which is another big difference between them and the saums. Saums are sloooooow growers.
Anyhow, within a week things were looking funny. I noticed that two were really colorful (males) and that one of these was getting big fast. The females were both acting 'funny' around him, not scared and not aggressive, interested for sure. I became optimistic but could see little of what was going on because these wild fish were extremely wary.
The larger male got INCREDIBLE color, which was hard to catch because of how the flash messed up colors. I did stay still long enough to get a couple shots...
March 2, 2007 (young male already colored up at 3 inches!!!)
What was really interesting was, even though they were really aggressive with each other... guppies did just fine in the tank with them!
Then it happened. I, on my way out of the fishroom, peeked into the side of the 100 gal. I saw fry. I was stunned and grabbed the video cam.
March 2, 2007 (first time fry were seen!)
It was awesome!!! And better yet, they wouldn't run and hide when I came in the room, so I could observe them swarming and eating. The bad side of this was the guppies then had a shot at eating a couple with the mother gone. After losing a couple fry, I removed all those stinkin guppies!
March 6, 2007 (young fry feeding)
The parental care was interesting. The male didn't seem to care for the fry much at all. However he didn't eat them either. The other male ended up dead and soon the other female had fry. She would actually hunt down the other females fry and there was NO love loss between the two ladies.
Second batch of fry:
Second female to spawn (notice there is a unique coppery color in the dorsal):
March 18, 2007 (male passes through fry cloud and female)
In this next vid the poor first female is hiding in the rocks with most of her fry taken out (by me). Her surviving fry got to a size and wariness that kept them alive and they grew the best.
March 18, 2007 (females interact, one is in rockwork, then male passes by)
I put the fry in various tanks to grow out and baby brine shrimp did them well!
April 15th, 2007 (six weeks old)
April 30th, 2007 (eight weeks old)
Fry in May:
Its a shame i cant copy the pictures or vids. the videos are really interesting. if you type stalsbergi into google it is the first one on the list
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